Speaker 3 (00:00.59)
Hi, good Thursday afternoon to you or whenever you're watching this. hope you're having a great day. Thanks so much for making time for the Thursday deep dive at the mic. I'm very grateful for your presence today. And we have some unfinished business from a previous discussion that we've got to get to today. First, let me say thank you as always to Hero West for putting together the thumbnails and making sure that we're distributed everywhere, Spotify, iTunes.

YouTube, we're over there, Rumble, all the links that you need posted later on at the Mike show, there it is, .com. Everything you need is right there. And of course you can follow Wes over on X at that guy at PGU, that is his handle. So we're grateful for everything he does. Also grateful for Gabby and all that she does over at the Instagram page. Follow her on X at Jeffy Apologist, only the best graphics.

for this show at Jeffy Apologist. She runs Instagram over there. Look for at the Mike show and follow along please. So let's see our last deep dive a week ago. Brad was here with Kelly. We went over a myriad of topics on the latest Barfleet installment. So if you missed that, it's pinned to the top. Also pinned to the top on the X page is last Friday's live stream. was a, it was a girl's club.

I had Jess, Kelly and Laura here because Brad was serving his one game suspension for too many cat references. They're just cats. And so I just, there's a limit and then, you you hit that. And so we had to suspend you for one week.

They're just cats.

Speaker 2 (01:43.758)
Can you ever get too much cat?

without pay. so I will say, Brad, after today's live stream, I'm hitting the road and I won't see you again. You and me and Rebecca will be doing the Friday live stream, but not until September 5th. I'll be back on September 4th and it's a, it's going to be a very interesting show. So standby for that. So no live streams after this until September 4th. And one of the places I'm going on my journey is a place that I know that you have been, Brad.

And it is the UFO, I'm going to get this wrong, Don, I'm sorry. It's so great to see you, Don Schmidt, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. And in fact, if people miss the original conversation that we had, it's seriously, it's one of the most fascinating books ever, Witness to Roswell. It is so good, man. I mean, and it's so if you want a book that has references and.

It really is good

Speaker 3 (02:40.802)
I call them cross examinations. But I mean, you talk about all the witnesses, hundreds of

And then we have the 75th anniversary edition.

yes. See, that's where I fall short, man. I gotta get that updated version.

Three new chapters.

Speaker 2 (03:00.791)
And it will if you if you don't think the government is is is rude to people. Let me just tell you that's that's what got me about that book.

That's a good way to say that. And ladies and gentlemen, please follow Brad on X at RealBradStags. Is there a specific place on social media where you hang out, Don, or are you smart and you avoid it like the plague?

I do tend to avoid it, I do have a new website which is Roswell slash or hyphen investigator dot com and then certainly on Facebook under Donald Raymond Schmidt. OK, so and I do respond to people. I do make it a point, but I mostly still and as the new web web pages is demonstrating that I'm still getting families whose father is.

mothers and grandparents were involved back in 1947 with the incident.

That is that is wild there's the site Keith if you want it no and the the because a lot of the people obviously the the the people who saw anything firsthand How many of them are gone all of them?

Speaker 1 (04:12.078)
I would say I'm still hunting down one and I have failed so far in that she was 10 years old at the time, so she's now 88. But still driving, I even have a make on the car. And yet everybody out in her area is still super protective. They know her, but they're not about to reveal her.

or give me any help as to, know, would you even pass on this letter? Would you even just introduce us? What have you? So it's classic in that they realize that the subject is still, you know, this tightrope, you know, situation with the government and they're afraid they may actually get someone in trouble for speaking out. And I guess that that itself speaks volumes. The idea that you're talking about a damn weather balloon from 80 years ago and still might, know,

I guess somehow get someone hurt.

Speaker 1 (05:14.036)
She handled from all the accounts I've heard she actually handled. She lived out at one of the ranches, the adjoining ranches back in 47, and she actually handled some of that memory material.

Wow.

Golly, man. So let me just catch people up in case they miss the April 10th episode, which I highly encourage you to go watch. It was fascinating from start to finish with Absolutely. And we covered the incident in 1947, the aftermath, the cover up, the government intimidation. And then we kind of got to the end of the two hours. And I mentioned how awesome in the back of the book

You know, it goes through where did these pieces of craft go? Where could that technology have ended up? And then you mentioned at the time, that's a whole nother conversation. So that's why we wanted to have like a part two of this discussion of the Roswell UFO cover up and bring you back on here because there's so much out there. And I don't even know where to begin, Don. I was going turn it over to you, man.

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:27.982)
So what, okay, so what happened? know, you know, let's start with Ohio, right? So the material gets collected. ends up, is it right, Patterson, right?

Yeah, at the time it was right field. It was before they split off between the Army and the Air Force. So it was still right field, but it adjoined Patterson Field at that time. And which served as a wonderful, as far as barometer for us, whenever we would speak to witnesses who were involved in either the transporting of the wreckage from Roswell or the remains that we were able to ask them specifically.

Which base did you fly to? Was it Wright Field or was it Patterson? The moment they would tell us it was Wright Field, it disqualified them. Because everything like foreign technology division and hangar 23, which we already had firsthand witnesses describing that the aircraft would taxi up to that very hangar.

crates would be unloaded, taken inside, and that there was a tunnel that led from within the hangar and then connected it to that series of buildings that were, you know, became part of that legend, that urban legend, the idea that there was a hangar 18, that that's where the bodies were kept at Wright-Patterson. Well, there is no hangar 18 at Wright-Patterson. There's a building 18,

And it's a series of buildings, A, B, C, D. It's not a hanger. It's a red brick series of buildings. But the main interest with 18 is that it was the home of foreign technology division. This is now eight years before area 51 would even, you know, be on the drawing boards.

Speaker 1 (08:33.358)
and even for first 10 years at groom Lake, was nothing but a landing script. That's all it was. So 51 had absolutely nothing to do with Roswell. And so go ahead.

Let me I was gonna say you you mentioned because right off the top you said the bodies or Keith when he said bodies and for anybody who is like weight bodies That's one of the things I think a lot of people don't know about the fact that there were That at least one of the bodies at Roswell Was kicking I think that's news to a lot of people

Yes, yes.

And that we have from both military as well as civilian. One of the things that initially tipped us off that something much closer to Roswell was involved was the fact that you had both the sheriff's department in Roswell Chavez County. Roswell was the county seat. And you had the sheriff as well as his deputies and you had the fire department.

that they were involved with the incident. Now, the debris field, which everyone is familiar with, we talk about all the wreckage and the two intelligence officers, Major Jesse Marcel, the 509th Bomb Group, the first atomic bomb squadron in the world, and the hit of counterintelligence, who was Captain Sheridan Cavett. They're two demonstrating that they wanted his involvement

Speaker 1 (10:08.992)
In the case this was something foreign, that would be his specialty. The point being that up to this point of military authority and that being the very base commander at Roswell, Colonel William Blanchard, no one could identify this material. Now, why would the base commander, you've had a ranch foreman by the name of WW Brazzo who reports the crash.

And even in so much as that you might humor him, you would send out a couple of grunts, a couple of enlisted men, you know, go check it out. But the base commander, Blanchard, he dispatches his head of intelligence, Major Jesse Marcel, who's the number one Intel officer in the US military at that time, because they're in charge of the atomic bomb. It's that simple. They were the elite within the military at that time.

No one even coming close. And then you also send a head of counterintelligence in the event that something foreign, because again, it shows that the anti continues to rise on this growing situation. And then who does Blanchard call up immediately after the two officers follow Brazzo back to the scene of the crime, so to speak. But he contacts his boss.

Head of the Eighth Air Force in Fort Worth and I was General Roger Ramey. Well, we're, you know, regressing a lot of what we covered in the last episode. But the reason that in even recounting the chain of activity and then how this then would lead to the involvement of Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio, that up until the point that

they had secured and recovered truckload after truckload of wreckage. And the fact that as Brad just brought up the idea of a survivor, that the impact site, which is a side, is separated by 27 miles.

Speaker 3 (12:28.386)
Yes, two sites. don't think people realize it's two different locations.

Congratulations.

Just north of Roswell within Chavez County, the police, the sheriff's department, as well as the fire department would have had zero jurisdiction going into another county, where the debris field is located, which is Lincoln County. They would have been off limits. They would have been told, unless they had been asked to assist in any situation, stay out of it. It's none of your concern.

So we continue to look for something much closer to town. And that's when we started to come up with the witnesses, not only to the remains of the capsule, the pod, this egg-shaped Volkswagen-sized pod, and then the crew. And then as even as described by the sheriff and as described by the crew chief from the fire department, Dan Dwyer, there was a survivor.

It was a live one. And then listen to the accounts of the live one from the military and then to the base hospital and then to the hangar and then all the way to right field in Dayton, Ohio. And the best testimony we have concerning the survivor at right field was he was a triple ace World War Two Colonel Marion McGruder. He was class of 4748 the War College.

Speaker 1 (14:00.05)
And in April of 1948, they were assigned to right field. We have the documents. Now it doesn't specify what their assignment was, but nonetheless, they were there to see something, to observe something. And Magruder, before he passed, he would tell, independent of one another, his four sons, what they witnessed, what they were shown. And it was the survivor from Roswell.

that they wanted the War Colleges' opinion as to, you know, what else do we need to do? Where else should we go regarding this? We don't know how much longer this being is going to even be alive. And so what would you recommend? They were seeking answers everywhere, considering they weren't getting anything from the survivor, as far as we know. Let's just say there was a major

Language barrier between the two.

A bit of one. And can I just, I want to jump in here and say that that's one of the things that makes your book so, I'm not just blowing smoke, but the fact that you have crossed the T's and dotted the I's and for anybody, because Moses in the chat just said, does anybody in the chat actually believe aliens exist? And when you read this book, you have a question about, what about this? Don has covered that.

I mean to the point where there were the literal receipts for the flight And what was on the flight the manifest and the crew lists. I mean, it's not it's not conjecture No, is all this stuff is in writing now a short of having a picture of the and they don't look like little green This is grock's idea of an alien But but what did they what were they described as looking like?

Speaker 1 (15:55.906)
Well, very short in stature, three and a half to four feet in height, disproportionately larger heads, horse eyes, not your big almond, you know, almost like abduction eyes, like the little puppet behind you there, But more like horse eyes. Right. And a thin slit for a mouth, diminutive nose, as far as no outer appendage, as far as either of the ears. But

that they were all described in every account that they were wearing a silver jumpsuit from the neck, did not cover the hands. There were four fingers with an opposable thumb and it was cinched at the waist and then cinched at the ankles and then there were foot coverings as well. I find it interesting and I catch them at the museum in Roswell constantly. This constant depiction of naked aliens. And it's like, I'm sorry,

suit.

Speaker 2 (16:56.91)
Right.

whether it's a Travis Walton case, whether it's, I mean, just on and on and on, they're always described as wearing garments, wearing some form of jumpsuit or spacesuit, what have you. And so it's almost like we're trying to lower them in as far as our human perspective that they're like animals, they're critters. They don't even know what, they don't even wear garment, they even wear clothes.

Right. Well, if somebody didn't know what a human looked like or wasn't familiar with the human form and saw I don't know somebody wearing a spandex Outfit they might think that that was their skin so I can you know It's it's understandable that there would be plus if you know the some of the panicked stories that we get the the descriptions of aliens I would imagine that Your brain is scrambling

The last thing you're concerning yourself with are they wearing any form of emblem on their lapel?

Are they Jordache jeans or what? So yeah, that's that the brain does strange things in recollection

Speaker 3 (18:03.916)
Yeah, and just to kind of buttress the point that Brad made about the way the book is written, it's an investigative book. It's not a, believe in aliens and you should too, and I'm going to pull out every possible thing to get you on my side. No, it just throws out facts. And the way you just mentioned how you were able to discount witnesses that incorrectly referred to

the Wright-Patterson situation in Ohio, and just things like that. And it's little things like that that go a long way in convincing me of coming off of the fence. Whereas I start reading your book and I'm at 50-50. And then after I read it, look, I don't know what they are, but I sure as hell know something otherworldly happened in New Mexico in 1947. And if you need any proof, just look at how the government responded.

from the silencing of the radio station to the changing the press release to the fake evidence in the office in Fort Worth. I mean, we could go on and on and on the intimidation of witnesses down to little girls. mean, it just goes on and on. So,

And what's wonderful gentlemen is that from our zeitgeist, from our present day perspective, that because we have witnessed, we've seen an entire litany of similar treatment for something not nearly as extraordinary, but nonetheless, we see the tactics the government will resort to as far as in their attempt to silence witnesses to something they do not want divulged. I'm sorry.

No one has been to date able to demonstrate another example where they resorted to such extreme measures over a weather balloon. I'm sorry. Unless someone else can do that, you cannot plug that in to this equation. And whether it was the highest ranking military down to, as you mentioned, 14-year-old girls back at that time, that their reaction, their...

Speaker 1 (20:20.494)
their response to all of like they were truly deal beyond the pale. Nothing t compare this to. I often point out that, you know, know, perso back in 1947. Not little men. Not even l the big tall. They look

Sorry, Buck Rogers, that type of thing. Yeah, what did they fly? They flew rockets. And so this broke the mold once and for all. I mean, it was where they had to come up the speed and there was nothing in the Army Field Manual of how to deal with this. And that's another reason that they brought in all the outside personnel that they did. Even the hospital was evacuated.

Right.

Speaker 1 (21:18.114)
They brought in outside doctors and nurses to take charge. And it's been our supposition now for many years that if you saw the movie Oppenheimer and even before that in reading General Leslie Grove's own book and that he specifically brought up the fact that Oppenheimer was constantly questioning who his outside people were every time they'd arrive at Los Alamos. Who are all these people?

all these civilians that I have no idea what their backgrounds are. And Groves always reassure him, they're with me. And then he would eventually identify them as his S-1 people. And these were people who had been readied. They had gone in the training. In the event the bomb failed, that if they had a major

know, catastrophe at hand at Trinity back in July 45, that these would have been the people who would have come in and essentially covered up the entire display. And so we're convinced that the people that came in at the time of Roswell were S1. These were all the people whose primary function was subterfuge. How to shut this down.

how to close Roswell off, how to close New Mexico off, how to deal with the press, how to silence the witnesses, how to deal with the military who were then prevented from becoming involved because Roswell essentially was shut out of the entire recovery operation. It was mostly outside personnel that were brought in. Now, why would you bring in outside personnel? Again, for the recovery of a standard off the shelf weather balloon.

And then why would you then need to send it on to Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio for testing and analysis? Again, explain that to me, Mr. Skeptick. Explain that to me.

Speaker 2 (23:30.06)
What happened to the the the Jesse Marcel picture of him kneeling there on the floor with all the stuff in front of him which was and again when you read the book you'll see that that was a swap out for the stuff that he really had brought over to but what what happened to that stuff what happened to those pieces which was they were pieces of a weather balloon do we know what happened to those things those interesting

What's interesting is that and he's pictured in four of the photographs and that is who I'd mentioned earlier who would have been the base commander at Roswell, Colonel Blanchard's boss and that was General Roger Ramey. Well, Ramey is pictured in four of the shots, not the two with Marcel, but two by himself and then two additional with his chief of staff, Colonel Thomas DeBose. When we...

When I interviewed, I was with Stan Friedman when we did it down in Orlando. We met with DeBose, then a one star, a brig general. And I asked General DeBose, where did the balloon come from? And I knew where it came from, but I just wanted to hear it from him. And he went, well, it sure didn't come from here because we didn't launch them. And he said, well, I know they launched over in Roswell, which they did. In fact, even in the base yearbook from 1947,

There's a photograph of these very radar kites with the neoprene rubber balloons. Kites are suspended, the array of these radar kites, in a hanger at the base at Roswell. And we even interviewed, like, Earl Fulford, the sergeant with the 603rd, who would assemble these balloons because they would launch them twice a day in conjunction with their bomb drop.

exercises. They would load up sand barrels of equivalent size and weight to an atomic bomb and they would do test drops around the outskirts of the city of Roswell. Well, they would launch these radar balloons with these arrays of these radar kites to a high altitude and because of the son of boy that would be suspended beneath them, it would keep it

Speaker 1 (25:49.78)
as stationary as possible to take as many readings as far as jet stream, upper jet stream, barometric pressure, as far as wind direction, that type of thing. Anything that would assist the bombardiers in conducting these tests. So nobody knew these balloons better than the personnel at Roswell. Right. And we even have

Sergeant Robert Porter, you wanna go back to that first shot, Brad?

The very first one with Marcel there.

with just myself.

Speaker 2 (26:31.118)
But oh, sorry. Hang on a second. I have to push that button too. There we go. Sorry

Now, if viewers will look closely, underneath the shredded radar kite, which is nothing more than foil, wooden sticks, string, and tape, that's all it is, you will observe that there's a sheet, you can see where it extends off to the right. It's rolled brown paper wrapping. It's just, you know, what they used back then to wrap things up. Sergeant Robert Porter.

Uh-huh.

When that plane, that B-29, which was called Dave's Dream, taxied up to the operations building, and Marcel had boxes of the actual wreckage up in the flight cabin. What Porter and a few of the others were doing were loading up these brown paper wrap packages up into the bomb bay, unbeknownst to Marcel and the others up in the flight cabin.

And there's the brown paper. And Porter would describe that three of them were the size of a shoe box. In some of the other pictures, you will see one of the brown paper wrap boxes still by the heat registered. And you see the brown paper beneath the kite. And you see where it's rolled out from the... And according to Porter...

Speaker 1 (28:02.422)
one of the brown paper wrapped packages was triangular in shape about two and a half to three feet in diameter. So where did the balloon come from? It came from Roswell. Now the testimony from Marcel, he describes, I want you both to also keep in mind, the original destination was not Fort Worth, it was Wright Field.

Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 (28:32.68)
Once they were airborne, Marcel thought they were going to right field with boxes of the actual wreckage. Once they were airborne, the pilot is on his radio, on his earphones, and he says, we've just been diverted to Fort Worth. General Ramey wants to see the wreckage. So they swing down to Fort Worth.

And Marcel would actually take a box of the real wreckage and place it on General Ramey's desk. The general would then take him to a map room to check out the location. And when they returned, Marcel was shocked to see that the box of wreckage is gone. Someone's removed it from the office and in its place.

scattered on the floor in front of the General's desk is a clump of black rotting neoprene rubber balloon and that shredded radar reflector kite. Now there's a hallway of reporters waiting to see the pieces of the flying saucer just arrived from Roswell. And Ramey would only allow one reporter into the room. And that was James B. Johnson of the Forward Star Telegram.

newspaper.

So there's Ramey in one of his four pictures with again.

Speaker 1 (30:08.265)
off the shelf, weather balloon.

Yeah.

Yeah, just.

And that matches the shape of those.

Yes, and what Porter described that they loaded up into the bomb bay, right? And then the skeptics would say as they have well Marcel was up in the flight cabin You mean he didn't see what was going on in the bomb bay behind him And it's like so you've been in b-29s, know, you know, you know the internal design of the bomber well, no, well, but it's like but I have been and it's not an open

Speaker 1 (30:52.056)
gateway into the bomb bay from the flight cabin. It's a porthole. You have to crawl through and it's a door with a hatch and it's closed. Any activity in the bomb bay is oblivious to anyone who's up in the flight cabin. Again, it's just black and white. There's nothing further that I need to explain.

right. They could hide it from him, in other words, and they he would not have known what was going on back there. He was they they used him. He they used him. Yeah, total Patsy. The government has never used people as Patsy.

Thanks, Jack.

Speaker 1 (31:24.376)
He was a

Speaker 1 (31:29.422)
And the other thing, gentlemen, this is the most curious thing at all. And I may have mentioned this to you before, but the fact that it's after Marcel poses for the pictures, the two pictures, and he has that look of just, you know, you know, he knows what's going down. He knows that he's being used, that he was, he's been set up in all this. And it's then first, he is sworn to secrecy by Remy.

He's told not to say the truth, not to tell any of the reporters in the hallway anything about the true nature of the material. And then it's added, and you are not even utter a word about this to your own wife, who we wouldn't see until the next evening because they would continue holding him for another day and a half and four at work. So they were making sure that they controlled the narrative.

and that they had the final word on all of this.

And he wasn't the only one they basically kidnapped. mean, they held other people. That's the point.

Yeah, the rancher, idea that as a civilian, whereas unless martial law be declared that the military has absolutely no authority over us whatsoever. And the fact that they would have kidnapped the rancher, the ranch foreman, Mack Rasm, and then detained him at the base for five full days, depriving him of food, water, sleep. They subjected him to a

Speaker 1 (33:09.73)
full army physical, including a full body cavity search.

Yeah, yeah, right, right. That's the thing. You can finish so many of the sentences with for a weather balloon and it just makes it so obvious. Now, one of the things that I obviously wanted to get into today is the aftermath and the technology that very likely came from that incident in Roswell.

for a weather balloon.

Speaker 3 (33:46.26)
and how it was distributed. And I kind of wanted you to walk us through the trail before you start discussing some of these. Like one of the things that I just found fascinating in the book were how the train tracks were so close between Wright Field and one of the companies that was involved in the aftermath there. mean, it's the proximity is just.

Incredible. But I wanted to play just a video here for you. If I could find it. I may have closed that tab. No, there we go. This video is from 11 years ago and to my understanding, and it kind of blends in nicely with Ashton Forbes, guest that we've had here on the live stream.

talking about the disappearance of MH370. And I'm not asking you to comment on that or take a position either way. But one of the things that he recently uncovered was, ironically, a video presentation from about a decade ago at Lockheed about the very technology that Ashton Contend's disappeared MH370. And so with that in mind, and Lockheed on the brain here.

I wanted to play this video for you. just if you have a comment on it, because as I watched this, all I could think about was Roswell. And I was like, I can't wait to play this for Don and see what he says.

materials that are on the lab bench right now, they can literally change shape on command. They can become almost a muscular material. could have an airplane that optimizes its shape for the different flight conditions it's in. There's definitely a lot of amazing technology that's going on. New materials.

Speaker 3 (35:40.706)
So there you go. right. So I wanted to see, like I said, all I could think of was, holy crap, I guarantee you that came from a field in Roswell.

Or at least it was the impetus as far as the possibility of having shape shifting materials that will assist in the aerodynamics.

But it sounds like we've applied the technology that the witnesses described in your book, 218.

Yes, yes. In fact, we can go all the way back to that fall of 1947 when right field contracted Battelle Institute just down the road in Columbus, Columbus, Ohio. Specifically with the assignment in the.

Speaker 3 (36:38.246)
Did too, I thought, uh-oh, he's about to drop on us. Hopefully we'll get that reestablished.

I that

Speaker 2 (36:48.248)
while we're waiting on that, the, remembered this, I remembered reading about this not too long ago, within the last year that scientists had discovered metal that can heal itself. And this is, this is a press release from Sandia National Laboratory in Albuquerque from 2023. And the headline is stunning discovery, metals that can heal themselves.

Scientists for the first time have witnessed pieces of metal crack then fuse back together without any human intervention

Time out, time out. me play this card for a second. Scientists just discovered. I have contended in the past on other topics, and I'm gonna apply it to this one, that in the government, maybe at the White House, maybe at the Pentagon, I don't know. But I swear there is a timeline. Okay, so a friend, Ellen, who I've interviewed on a previous episode of my...

idea

Speaker 3 (37:52.622)
She talked about the soap opera storyboard, right? And it just takes up an entire wall. And that way you keep your character straight and you get all this. That is what I imagine they have. All right. And then in 2023, we're going to reveal that, hey, we got these metals that can heal themselves, even though they've probably had it on their shelf since 1947.

Right.

Speaker 2 (38:15.768)
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly that's exactly right. I mean this when I saw this and I think I read about it last year and it was like the big news and I thought well this they've had this, you know, for a very long time and if you ask if you ask grok or any probably any AI interface, I asked it what what specifically were the items that we have in modern day life that were allegedly created from alien technology?

that we learned from the crash at Roswell and it goes down the list of integrated circuits, microchips, lasers, I hadn't thought about that, lasers, fiber optics, transfer capacitors, described as molecule-sized heat-free switching devices from alien tech, potentially influencing high-speed computing and energy-efficient electronics. And then,

the meta materials, the memory metal claimed to originate from self healing shape memory alloys in the debris that remember their form after deformation now used in eyeglass frames, medical stents, aerospace components. But the self healing, and then what I thought.

It made its debut in a family kitchen in Roswell, New Mexico and in a diner in Roswell, New Mexico. I mean, this is... And what sucks is that... Is how our government goes about this stuff, man.

I

Speaker 2 (39:51.854)
They're sneaky bastards

Everything falls under the purview of national security. Give me a break. But I'm looking forward to hearing about the materials that were sent to Columbus from Don when we reestablish here. hope we do. Aliens say this guy knows too much.

Didn't get, I said.

I sent him a text and said, log back in when you can. we'll.

I'm keeping an eye, I'm keeping an eye, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:20.97)
night vision goggles is the other said to be based on image intensifying lenses from the alien head gear or craft ins. Now, can this be? Yeah, I mean, hyperbole and and and fake and make. absolutely.

I'm going to be using night vision goggles for the first time coming up on my little trip here. looking forward to that. Kind of excited.

Do we know where you're going?

No. Okay. I mind.

all over, north. I hear it, yeah it is. Canada is beautiful this time of year. Particle beams, a claim from energy weapons or propulsion systems in the wreckage influencing directed energy weapons and scientific tools like particle accelerators. Also depleted uranium projectiles. These were derived from dense penetrating materials. That's what she said.

Speaker 3 (40:53.812)
I hear it's cooler up there.

Speaker 2 (41:19.584)
in the craft used in armor piercing ammunition for tanks and aircraft.

It really puts the Cold War into a whole new frame of reference, it?

And that's

Why when people say well, why would they try to keep all you know the secret? Why would they not want people to know about ros this?

But let's just say, okay, but let's just say that, right, right, right. But let's just say on its surface that that's why you don't want this getting out because you don't want them knowing you have this alien tech. It landed in our backyard. It doesn't, mean, who cares if you know where it came from, we're the ones that have put it to such great use.

Speaker 2 (41:43.424)
I'm saying it's right. I'm just saying that's

Speaker 2 (41:50.83)
So what?

Right.

Speaker 2 (42:01.93)
and and likely I just this just struck me as being all right, we are If we have advanced material if we have the this alien tech that is super de duper and and does amazing magic things and You know, we can create these Amazing machines and have these fantastic tools that came from technology that is not of this earth Why are we 37 trillion dollars in debt?

Because you know what? Because we're lottery winners as a nation if this alien stuff landed in our backyard and we don't know how to spend this money.

Well, isn't that weird? mean you'd think that if you Yeah, but but that would be It hurts my brain

I understand. I understand. Did you hear the Annapalina Luna interview with Joe Rogan where she talked about some of this alien tech and not getting access to it as

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:02.07)
He says he's rebooting the entire system went down.

Gosh, I hope everything's okay because you know, yeah, I just hope the weather's okay. You never know

That's true. The Annapolina Luna. Yeah. I've seen her.

Yep. And did you see the little discussion she had about aliens and technology and

I have to listen to her? Can I just look at her? Is that wrong? I don't mean to

Speaker 3 (43:29.548)
I don't want to have to give you another suspension.

By the way, before we get there.

tell me about the museum. I can't wait to go there. Is that it? Is that from there?

This is this yeah, this is the inside. This is from a long time ago though because I tried to but this is from a lot because there's a lot more stuff in here now like Looking down. I actually saw the video from standing right here and you can see looking down this way We did our broadcast from a little office right down on right hand side

Break anything when you were there?

Speaker 3 (44:03.662)
But I see what he's saying about how the depictions aren't anything, right? mean, that make it neck and neck?

He don actually put the when those props when those dummies were first built it was for a a tv show and I can't remember he'll have to explain it but don went in and put the collars and the little wristbands on them and the little things around their ankles because Otherwise it looked like they were naked

I see. Okay, so he's the one.

the one. Yeah, Don takes care of this stuff. He's he goes in there. And that's when when I was down there, and I told him, hey, when something breaks next time, if you because he travels quite a bit, I said when you can't, you know, if you can't get there, I said, just call me because I'll get I'll jump in the curator. I will jump in there and fondle those bad boys and fix them all up. Good. I don't I'm gonna tell you because you'll be disappointed if I don't tell you.

So the aliens used to move.

Speaker 3 (45:11.662)
no! It's like this little very slow...

Very very slight and because I no, I know and I figured that but I'm gonna just they Because they were made for as a prop for a TV show or for a movie. I can't remember they were made with latex and neoprene and they had little air bladders inside them that could be Inflated and deflated that would cause them to look appears if they were breathing and they move their head

I'm forward to this!

Speaker 2 (45:46.454)
Yeah, very slightly.

And I'm gonna interrupt you real quick just because at this little museum off the beaten path there in South Dakota where they have the props from the movie, the Kevin Costner movie, Dancing with Wolves. And so you got that breathing buffalo thing. And it's so simple, but yet I'm still impressed. Anyway.

The first time I saw the first time because I've been to the museum a couple of times the first time I was like I swear they moved and if you stand there and you what and I was like and then I did see him because it was a very slight it was like a very slight head turn and this time I stood out there before the museum and I was scaring I was like wait where are they gonna move and because I'll meet I think it's every hour the the smoke machine comes on the little thing I think the

start spinning but then they didn't move and I was talking to Don and he said eventually the the bladders that filled up with air started to crack the neoprene or the the the the rubber material that the aliens are made out of so they had to turn it off because otherwise it would have split them wide open and So they don't They don't move anymore I

my heart.

Speaker 2 (47:05.738)
Mine too because I stood there for a long time staring at him this time waiting for him to move and damn it they don't but I figure I could offer to go down there and fix them and make them move again. I think it'd be worth my time.

You actually can do that kind of stuff.

So I could teach you how to make aliens move too for a price. But yeah, it's really, there's a lot more to this museum when you get down there, if you ever go to, if you get to the museum, because it is, it's.

I'll be there in I don't know about a week or so or two two weeks. Hell. I don't know. I'm disappearing. but that's on the

I wasn't gonna say a damn thing. I just I I know nothing Yeah, like sergeant schultz on hogan's heroes, which was a show back in the 1800s

Speaker 3 (47:56.664)
Are these pictures from the museum, right?

I don't know. Yes. Yes. Those are pictures from the museum. I love those pictures. So I can this this is the picture. look at

Look at this. Hey, hey, don't back. good. Are those pictures from the museum done?

Yes and no, but they're not accurate. No, no.

Not accurate, okay. You kind of read my mind there, like I had a follow-up like that.

Speaker 1 (48:21.646)
and I first of all I apologize we of you are aware we had some major flooding over the weekend and in fact not only did we lose internet for almost two days but then we were out of power we're still getting back to normal here we had about 12 inches of rain in four hours

I wondered if it had something to with the...

Speaker 2 (48:44.046)
How did you live without the internet?

Yeah.

What is that?

For just being gone these last 10 minutes, again, it's another example where you become frantic to the point that I know we're on a schedule and it's like I get tired of having to always apologize for the breakdown of technology.

Please don't. It happens to this show all the time. We're the common denominator.

Speaker 1 (49:13.49)
I know it's to the point like our museum down in Roswell, we have a full-time computer tech. That's all he does in just keeping everything up and running every day.

Well, and I was just telling Keith that I had offered you that when you're when you're traveling and you can't get down there to fix the aliens or whatever that you call me and I'm down there and you know I can fix stuff. So you just let me know and I will I will be there with the with the tool bag and I will make stuff work.

Well, I appreciate that. talked about the Gort, the robot and...

I had that up because when you were talking about, you know, what the common, I guess, image that people had back in the 50s or the 40s rather, and into the 50s was that this is what aliens look like, that they look like robots like that, the big silver in this. And there's one of these replicas in the museum, too. That was the common. And they thought of people from outer space. That was it. So the little three foot tall

beings were, you know, it wasn't something that was taken from pop culture.

Speaker 1 (50:27.982)
Well, whereas Gort, I mean, as in the picture, I mean, he is the robot that is artificially, you know, constructed to serve as their police force as described it. But Clatt too, the actual visiting alien, he again is a hundred percent human in appearance. Right. And could walk right down the street and nobody would know any different.

Right and they and they do live amongst us

So, all right, Don, before the government jumped in and rudely cut you off.

We were talking about, it was interesting that before that though you had mentioned, you talked about just down the road and that would have been the Timken plant, which is just in Camden, Ohio. And the thought being, and again, we have the firsthand witnesses that they loaded up a number of crates of wreckage onto a freight car through the east gate of the Roswell Army Airfield.

just across the tarmac from building 84 P3, that B29 hanger that everything had transited through before being all shipped out. And that they decided aside from air transport that they also were going to as far as train car, some of the material. And they, again, they had a specific agenda because this train car again, as witnessed

Speaker 1 (52:00.05)
And as described as far as by the people who were involved, that there were feds who were waiting for the car and they loaded a number of these crates onto the back of a truck and they went to the Timken plant just down the road from Wright Path. And at the time, Timken had one of the hottest blast furnaces in the world.

And so again, it was a demonstration of where they were making every effort to try to essentially inflict some damage to this material. Scratch it, heat it up, break it, bend it, what have you, what have you. And the irony in all this quickly is that it was a story that was confirmed by both cavits.

And I mentioned Sheridan Cabot was the counter intelligence officer who accompanied Marcel out to the crash site. And that Cabot, when we found him and all the discussions we had privately with him, I wasn't even there. I wasn't involved. You got the wrong person. You know, I don't know what you're talking about. And yet he would give us little crumbs here and there. So the Cavits in the Marcel's, they would get together.

once a week to play bridge. And so Marcel had returned from Fort Worth after he became the fall guy as far as the entire affair. And even Mary Cavett, Cavett's wife, would tell the story of how that first time they all got together. After everything, now they dormant. Everything was quiet. The balloon press conference had succeeded.

press, you bought it, hook, and sinker, and the subject was classified, top secret. You weren't even to bring it up and even close conversation. So Mary is describing how on this first occasion, after the whole Roswell incident, the women remained in the front room and the men were in the kitchen.

Speaker 1 (54:22.114)
They had a piece of the wreckage and they were heating it up on the stove. So just as they failed with the blast furnace at the Timken plant in Camden, Ohio, here were the two head of intelligence, Marcel and Cabot, essentially doing the same thing on a much lesser degree. But nonetheless, it was like, damn it, does anything affect this stuff?

Right.

Then the obvious question was, well, Mary, then what what became of that piece? What became of that piece? They were heating up on the stove and she said, my husband quickly reminded Marcel that he better get rid of it. That it be it's classified, you know, Jess, you better get rid of this. We're not supposed to have this. And the two men walked out onto the patio when they came back, they didn't have it any longer. And that's where that story about something being under the Marcel

patio, even Cabot would bring that up. Do you guys ever think about breaking up that old Marcel patio? Well, when we went back to the city records and we found that that concrete slab had just been poured three weeks before that was the permit and that the footings were still open along the grass line and that you could easily have gone out and just tucked it underneath that concrete slab and talk about the perfect

hiding place. Well, unfo became involved. Pre, you k built a family room over we have made offers. Even told you that even the p Hans Adam the second even rebuild the house even be

Speaker 3 (56:05.486)
Yes.

Speaker 1 (56:18.242)
we would just like to check underneath that concrete slab. And we're still knocking on the door, so to speak.

So they told you no, so they won't let you even look?

They still won't even well, what we're what we'd like to do without giving away too much is that the army has developed concrete penetrating radar. And so we'd like to at least have a shot with that technology and see there is something indeed under the concrete.

Well, what they found, the pieces that they found, mean, how big are the pieces that they handled back then?

That's what I was going to ask you.

Speaker 1 (57:01.902)
The largest piece, which is the piece that created the furrow, the gouge that even it, which it even mentions in the press release that the rancher started in a livestock shed. What he stored in the livestock shed, which was still there till about 15 years ago, was that large piece that that first day that evening, Brazel went back with his pickup truck and dragged that piece.

three miles to the north and put inside that livestock shed. So it was about 10 foot in diameter. of the other pieces were generally the largest pieces. There was one section that was about four foot in diameter, we were told, but generally others were about the size of a handkerchief. But beyond that, most of them were just shards, were just little scraps of material.

I don't think you saw, I think you had just followed, your internet had just gone down, but I shared this with Keith. This from Sandia National Laboratories. It was in July of 23, and I think I read about it last year, but the metal that can heal itself.

Yeah, yeah. that I just had just used that term as right path did right at the time with Battelle Institute self healing metal. And this is within weeks after Roswell self healing metal. And we were getting the run around between right field, right path and Battelle. Neither one claiming that there was such a project.

And then finally, Battelle found Progress Report Number 2, which came out at the end of 1948, describing their efforts to develop self-healing metal. Now wouldn't we love to see Progress Report Number 1? But the point being, the end result, which finally saw

Speaker 1 (59:15.406)
light of day in 1963 was the alloy known as nitinol, combination of nickel and titanium. And you could go onto YouTube, just type in NITOL, T-I, nitinol, AL, and there will be demonstrations of people holding up this piece of metal, and then they dip it into hot water.

And then when they retract it, it becomes like taffy. You can crumble it, you can twist it, you can shape it into any form you want. And then you have to disperse it into cold water where it will assume its original shape and size. Yeah, that's it all. Eye frames, surgical equipment.

Hmm

have, you probably can't see it very well, but I bought this, I don't know, a couple years ago, and this will do, it's in the, I know you can't see this at all, but it's in the form of a giant paper clip, probably an inch or two across, and this, you can do the same thing. If I put this, if I drop this in hot water, it will right back to the form of.

right back to the paperclip.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41.806)
It's visual shape, right? But here you have to go through these different stages. All the material, all the eyewitness accounts that Roswell described it as right there before your eyes. Right. That a person could pull a piece of paper or a metal sliver out from a shirt pocket and say, did you ever see anything like this before? As they would crumble it up and then as they release their grip, it would flow like water between their fingers. That type

How many?

it was like mylar right it looked like mylar

Perfect memory, but yet you couldn't cut it. You couldn't burn it. Even a bullet wouldn't penetrate it. So. I'll my alarm.

So can you talk to us about some of the patents that resulted in the aftermath of Roswell?

Speaker 1 (01:01:32.918)
Well, that would be that would then be assuming that there were direct developments from the.

curious patents that came around after Roswell.

And I tend to side on those who still believe it's more of a cover up of ignorance and that they still can't find the on button. That they have not been able to bridge the technology. That we shouldn't assume or we shouldn't believe that we can automatically plug it in, so to speak. I think the best example I ever heard was the late Tracy Torme, the screenwriter, who said, excuse me,

Just imagine if could send something as simple.

Yeah, take your time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26.222)
How do I know that name Tracy Torme wrote Mirage Men Big Goodbye Sliders? Firing this guy.

A slider's fire in the sky. father was a military man. Okay. Singer-composer.

And Tracy just died last year.

He died just last year very unexpectedly. And we were dear, friends.

I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54.168)
Tracy would say, say you could take something as simple as a toaster oven and teleport it back in time and say back to the middle ages. And they might be able to disassemble it, put it back together again. But if you can't plug it in, never get it to work. And that may be indeed exactly what we're facing with such advanced technology.

Right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21.358)
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25.154)
The reason I mention all this is that he was a flight engineer with the 393rd Bomb Squadron. name was Sergeant William Addis. And as a flight engineer, not a flight mechanic, engineer, these guys could take apart those B-29 Silver Plates down to the last rivet and put them back together again.

And it took me years to get him to even talk about Roswell. I wasn't there. I was on assignment in Puerto Rico, that type of thing. Was never, never involved. So it's just a couple of weeks before he dies and his son calls me up and says, dad would like to see you one last time. And I'm Death bed.

And so I couldn't get back. I couldn't get to him fast enough. I'm sitting with him. And he was a big NASCAR fan. So it was a Sunday afternoon and I let him get comfortable. And he was watching the race and he knew his time. In fact, he probably knew it was probably the last race he even see. And he kept looking at me and he kept smiling. And I just I saw that something was coming. And then finally, he says to me during.

a red flag.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53.336)
Don, before I go, you gotta find out how that damn thing flew. It didn't have a moving part on it.

Ha ha ha ha.

No moving parts, no propulsion, no engine, no wiring, no vacuum, no that type of thing, no moving parts. So then we're getting back to what you, what they demonstrate as far as with Lockheed and the idea that the shape shifting, the contortion, the metamorphosis of the materials, the shape throughout the concept of flight.

And the idea that what if the memory material was the propulsion?

that as it, you know, it's almost like the more it flexes, it pushes itself forward faster and faster and faster. It's almost like the concept of external combustion technology, which we are working on and we may have mastered by now. And what we're filming specifically over

Speaker 1 (01:06:11.918)
some of the Nevada test sites where these dumbbell contrails more and more, which in itself is unusual. It is just a steady stream of contrails. They're dumbbell, you know, like a pulse technology. that's what it is.

That's what you're saying. I thought you meant stupid. You meant literal dumb dumb. I gotcha, okay.

Well, it was like.

get it, yeah.

And that for each pulsation, it propels the craft faster and faster and faster and faster.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50.986)
And would that be the case as far as with this memory material, the idea as it compresses and expands and it literally will drive the craft faster and faster and faster. And then that all becoming part of this idea of thought projection. The idea that I crawl into the driver's seat and I tell it what to do. That you become an integral part of the craft.

that you are essentially AI as we are presently becoming extensions of our machines, that the machine becomes an extension of us. And so it really gets into some of the more extreme theories about all this. But then I come back to Aspired William Ennis, No Moving Parts.

And then I go back to it was a draft that was prepared as about seven pages long from the Air Intelligence Requirements Division that came out in October of 1947. And they were sending it out to all their listening posts throughout the world. And they were asking, for example, do we know where the Horton brothers are? We want to talk to the Horton brothers because they were the they were, you know,

the process of creating the flying wing and mastering the flying wing technology. And at the same time that Northrop was, we had flying wing. And the Horton brothers, they were talking about immediately going to jet propulsion and even rocket propulsion with a flying wing. So they wanted to talk to the Horton brothers. And then they were talking about, do we have any information at all regarding aircraft devoid of engine and propulsion systems?

So this is again, immediately after Roswell. So then you plug in what Ennis is saying about no moving parts and it's like, okay, now that makes sense. Why are they making inquiries about aircraft devoid of propulsion?

Speaker 1 (01:09:05.678)
And so we keep coming back to what were the functionality of the fiber optic-like materials that were described at Roswell. You have the nearly indestructible materials that even a 16-pound sledgehammer couldn't scratch, as described by Marcel. Was that the outer shell, so to speak? And then you have the eye beams.

structures is that part of the skeleton and then you have the memory material. What was the purpose of the memory material? And again I'm asking was it the propulsion?

It's It's gone.

was developed just before Roswell 1943 Lockheed opened or I guess that that's the theory that they began the skunk works which was all about propulsion and and and the jet aircraft like the P-38 Lightning in 1940 around 1940 so this would all tie into that

Mm hmm. And is it an interesting that the late Senator Harry Reid before his passing suggested that he had sources at Lockheed that talked about reverse engineering the technology. And we have had firsthand at Lockheed, at Boeing, at Battelle, at Rand, at Hughes, at General Electric, at Bell, at

Speaker 3 (01:10:34.316)
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47.746)
Bureau Standards, all talking Los Alamos, all describing their failed efforts to crack the technology. Now, it doesn't mean that there hasn't been some breakthrough. I know it's even joked that maybe even like Velcro is something that we develop from Roswell Recovery.

Right.

I'm willing to accept that fiber optics, because that is clearly described at Roswell, that these silken strands of material like microfilament fishing line, you can hold the light to one end and the light would emit out the opposing end. Well, incredible. That's fiber optics. But yet fiber optics wouldn't be developed until around 1970. So it may have still taken them a few years to crack that. But nonetheless,

We know they've been working on memory material, self-healing metals, immediately after Roswell. And no one has been able to demonstrate that prior to Roswell, there was any such development or efforts in the creation of such materials. I think we were perfectly satisfied with aluminum aircraft

I mean, keeping in mind, aside from Spruce Goose, you know, as far as Howard Hughes, that even the Germans, like the Horton brothers, were using paneled wood in the construction of their aircraft prototypes. So the skies were still quite pristine, quite virgin back in 1947. That's the wonderful thing about that time period, that there are so few alternative possibilities.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47.852)
And yet we're still faced with the materials, what the eyewitnesses were describing and unanimously. And they're all describing something fantastic, something wonderful, something well beyond our technology. And as Brad even mentioned as far as with the Nitinol, and it's been applied now to surgical equipment, glass frames that you can twist.

But that's, but they're thin strands of the material. It's not like a sheet of the material that you first have to heat and then cool before it will return to its original shape and size. We're getting there though. So it still comes back to the impetus. What inspired us? What motivated us to seek out these new alloys, these new materials?

You're also keeping in mind that, and I think every time we've had a recovery of a meteorite and the elements within are extent throughout the universe. Everything that is here on planet earth is extent throughout the universe. We're not finding any new metals or, you know, materials or alloys or anything. It still comes down to how are they arranged?

How are they connected? How are those molecules linked? Either a memory material or something so thin and light and yet strong that even a bullet can't penetrate it. Well, then we have Kevlar, don't we? So we don't know.

Right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35.726)
I grew up in Lancaster, California and and right next to Palmdale and we had the Lockheed Rockwell plant 42 all of that and my friend I just found out yesterday I knew he worked I thought I it was My north for a point of those anyway, I said, you know, where did LP work my my friend's dad and He worked at the skunk works. Mm-hmm at plant 42 and At the time when we were in high school

the the test pilots they would all come over Tom Pugh who was a He would come over they'd sit by the pool and we'd you know when you're in the midst of that You don't realize you're in the you know who these people really are? Yeah, and it was I'm pretty sure was Tom Pugh that I asked back in 1992 because I did the the series on UFOs for the Nashville Network and I well, you know Tom what about

This is a greatness.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33.632)
UFOs he said if I told you what I know about UFOs, we'd both be dead. Mm hmm. hmm. And I just that never I mean that that blew me away and and that's what now we're seeing because I was like Skunk Works and Rockwell and all of these things. It's all coalescing. I'm starting to think that's why I was here on earth.

And I was about to say, know, what he told you only becomes even more clear when you read Witness to Roswell.

Yeah, right. And God knows, and I always, you know, emphasize the point that the government slash military doesn't manufacture so much as a bullet. Everything is contracted out into the private sector. And then everything from Roswell obviously was assimilated into the private sector with the hope that someone would break the code.

So true.

Speaker 3 (01:16:19.212)
Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31.84)
someone would find the on button. And I find it, you know, ironic that you can't file a freedom of information act request to any private corporation, specifically the military industrial complex.

Yeah

that you could send such a could send a foyer to Boeing and they would acknowledge anything they would tell you where to go.

Right.

And so they have that built in umbrella protection. And then we have the warning as far as from then former President Dwight Eisenhower about the military industrial complex. Because what would empower a private corporation beyond any government and is that that would be to be sitting on or developing

Speaker 1 (01:17:32.098)
technology that the highest bidder would then step forward.

And as a result, you're holding a Trump card that no one else has. It becomes an internal race to the moon, so to speak. And again, as the late Stan Friedman would describe that the first country to reverse and develop the technology would rule the planet. We'd have a whole fleet of, you know, flying saucers. And it would be like having a whole unit of

gore, robots, that essentially could put out any fire anywhere in the world if necessary. And it becomes a big bargaining tool in the sense that, without becoming political, idea that I, for one, believe that the one thing that placed, aside from the bomb, that placed the United States in the position of power

and in the driver's seat, so to speak, is Roswell.

This is exactly what we said when you were offline.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46.658)
that we have the technology. We're getting closer and closer and you better play nice. Otherwise you have no idea what we have in our arsenal.

So do you think that other governments know that or believe this?

Yes, and I believe that much of our foreign aid is hush money. It's essentially pay their cooperation, pay their silence. In other words, you cooperate with us on such matters.

Otherwise, why are we still beholding this so many other foreign

Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:19:27.436)
Because now that I think it threw a little bit more thoroughly than I did a half an hour ago, I guess that if it becomes clear that the United States of America has alien technology, then how dare they sit on this? For the betterment of the world, you should release this life-changing information technologies that could save humanity in so many forms. Never mind weapons of war, but just...

the numerous inventions just rattled off by Brad moments ago.

Right. But that's not the military's purview. They looked at the weaponization of everything. How can we make it into a big...

Yeah, and and that would be why all the secrecy that would be why they immediately flipped on the the wasn't a flying saucer It was a weather balloon because somebody up top spanked the general at roswell shut your mouth. This is money come up with something

And we already have the Soviets breathing down our necks. We know they're going to have the bomb sooner than later. And this may give us an upper hand. so and you're looking for answers. You have no answers. You have a survivor. No communication that we're aware of. And as a result, it's like we have to rely not on our own people, but on the Boeings and the

Speaker 2 (01:20:44.27)
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01.982)
And as far as the bells at that time and the Hughes and Battelle with the hope that they will come up with the answers that we need. And. My concern, and I would hear this from officers at the Pentagon. And sack officers and retired officers more and more that. Their biggest qualm was the fear that. The old order.

was not passing it down the new. That whatever glimmers of information that they may have acquired at times. In most cases, they took it with them. All the highest ranking officers at Roswell took this with them, for example. The ones who were at right field, they took this with them. you know, not even their own families. In some cases, there were death beds. mean, and we're still counting.

and relying and tracking down families because we're still getting deathbeds. That's why we're still going after the relatives with the hope that something was still said at the last moment. But you.

There hasn't been a definitive, right? There has not been to date, there has not been any deathbed confession that said, we or that, hey, by the way, I've been sitting on this picture of the alien now for 80 years, here it is. Has that happened yet?

We've had a lot of false alarms. can't tell you gentlemen how often we have been invited into homes with the hope that we could search and go through rooms, go through attics, go through basements. Nothing like going through a crawl space down in New Mexico, not knowing what snakes and lizards are down there. But they have to be checked. And...

Speaker 2 (01:22:57.08)
Right.

We've made mistakes at times because we relied on experts to tell us something looked good, something looked genuine. And that's where I'm to the point right now. I trust the science. I no longer trust the scientists.

Amen.

10 scientists in a room, got 10 different versions of the same, you know, test, the same version, you know, interpretation, you know, that type of thing. And so I, I, it's still, I agree with you that there's still something out there. There's still evidence out there. It's no reason that we've had enough five archaeological digs at the crash site. It's no reason that we will, you know, that we will have another one.

The next time we're going be using subterranean radar drones that we can cover a much larger area of the region. But we realize it's going to come down to us. getting back to this idea that, OK, the military industrial complex may be calling all the shots. And even I even harken back to like the Iran-Contra affair. And then with the testimony of Colonel Oliver North.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11.03)
and he kept referring to the basement White House.

as though there was a secret government. Was this his way of talking about this breakaway society, this breakaway government, this breakaway technology that has been able to crack, you know, 1947, but they refuse to share it with the rest of the world because it's going to be their bug out, you know, as far as

Program should they need to you know, get out of Dodge in a hurry so to speak My concern is I was talking about the officers that I've been talking with through the years and not being handed down the information my other concern is What if they've lost track of who's got what? What are the new? Yeah, because they have not been brief. They have not been company

kept up the speed. They don't know who possesses what at the moment. And here's the other dilemma.

What if it's all gone? What if they dispense, they distributed it all out and the government actually has nothing left? They don't know where to look for it. And it's not as though they could call for disclosure tomorrow and they could actually demonstrate the memory material when they may not even know who is in possession of the president.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44.851)
Help.

I mean, the same could apply to these companies too. Different people in charge over the years and they don't know what's in their own laboratories.

Do you remember at the ending of the movie, the first Indiana Jones Raiders of the Lost Ark? The big warehouse. Yeah, and the big warehouse. And the moment I saw that, I'm thinking, Spielberg is telling us something here. So my scientific director, Dr. J. Allen Heineck, who had done the Close Encounters movie with Spielberg. And I immediately, you know, thereafter, I'm talking to Dr. Heim, talking to Allen. And I said, next time you talk to Spielberg, because they were talking about a sequel.

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25.086)
of C E three. You bring up. I think I think I'm spot on. I think that's what he was he was referring to what he was suggesting. So a year would pass and I get a phone call, you know, late one morning and it's dr Heineck. He says, I'm sitting here with Stephen. We're having a beautiful lunch out on the ocean and I raised that question and you are right.

That's exactly what he was inferring they would do with the Roswell technology. If you couldn't figure it out, all you would do is crate it up, box it up, and hide it because it's all you could do. So what did Spielberg do as far as with the Crystal movie at the beginning where the Russian agents force him?

Speaker 1 (01:27:21.095)
and there was one of the Roswell cadavers.

Yeah. Yeah.

So it came full circle. There was the hangar.

So it's probably some it's sitting somewhere this stuff and the part that concerns me is the little bitty pieces that maybe went to, know, Marcell's family may have it may be sitting in a box on a dresser and somebody is when someone else dies is going to go, what's this? It looks like it fell off a 57 Chevy and why is he saving that and throw it away?

Right. And I can't stop thinking about the kid doing the magic tricks. he has a piece gifted to him by his dad.

Speaker 1 (01:28:00.43)
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04.366)
James Woods, his dad gave it to him on his sixth birthday.

And it vanishes from the, they kept it in what, the shed or something? Where was it?

They had like a playhouse, a clubhouse. What the hell? And it disappeared within weeks.

Yeah, it's in the book by the way, if you haven't read the book read the book

Speaker 2 (01:28:30.382)
want to a question about this thing. It's not off topic, but this comet that's headed toward us in theory.

And Avi Loeb is convinced maybe.

Yeah, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:28:50.488)
Do you know Abbe Loeb?

I have we have emailed and I have I just had lunch with a colleague of his just the other day and he's preparing a paper and he wants me to even you know preview it and then recommend it to Avi as far as speaking at a conference in Italy coming up in October which I'm happily going to do and so I love the fact that

in many respects that they become our contemporary jail in Hynix or our James McDonald or Stanton Freedman's and that they have picked up the gauntlet and they add that level of scientific respectability that their own credentials, their own reputation rises to the fore and what better people to represent us?

in that regard. But then there's always that, you know, suspicion and back to my mind that when you have a true whistleblower such as Edward Snowden, whether one believe he to be a traitor or a hero, we see what happens to a true whistleblower. They need to pay for their lives. As opposed to those that are able to openly discuss such things.

And then you wonder how much of it is potentially disinformation. Are they more of a useful idiot in spreading BS nonsense for, you know, for the powers that be, or are they playing some type of covert game with our opposition in throwing them off the trail, so to speak? I think it goes in numerous directions.

Speaker 1 (01:30:51.783)
And in any one of them, it can still serve to...

you know, you know, become part of the old national security excuse. You know, hearing that since 1947, you know, don't ask me about it. It's national security or we can't discuss this or we can't divulge that it's national security. Well, that's been a fallback for almost 80 years. But now.

As I hear that, I tune them out in my head because I'm so sick of it.

Precisely precisely because that's all it is. That's all it is is it becomes part of the noise and But so I remember it was Ernst Steinhoff. He was with paperclip He was second under Werner von Brahm as far as with their rocket program with operation paperclip But the Nazi scientists were brought to Fort Bliss in El Paso, Texas right after World War two and I interviewed Steinhoff's personal physician

who was with him when he died. And Steinhoff told him all about Roswell, that they risked bringing in a number of the German scientists, the Nazi scientists into Roswell to examine the wreckage. They just needed to rule out that this was any advanced Nazi technology. They had seen enough come from Germany that

Speaker 1 (01:32:21.57)
This wouldn't surprise them as well. And so they just needed, you know, a professional opinion in that regard. the doctor said to me, you know what Steinhoff always said to me?

Those who don't know talk. And those who know never talk. And that's where we have to be careful in even going back to the late Colonel Philip Corso. And in the book, the day after Roswell, which he didn't write, it was written by Dr. Attorney Bill Burns, William Burns.

that he claimed all this reverse technology, microchips and night vision and fiber optics and everything that was spawned from the recovery at Roswell. If that's all true, why are you talking about it? How are you able to talk?

Yeah, it was it was it unlike the way that the late Tom Clancy in writing his novels, he very often would sprinkle true information within his fictional books because that's how he could get away with it. And he was constantly being called up the cat and being questioned. What is your source on this? Where did you get this information? You realize that

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55.212)
You are skirting as far as on national security that term again by discussing this as far as in open public that type of as like, hey, it's a novel. It's fiction. can't. But in Corso's book, it's presented as not.

All right.

Speaker 2 (01:34:13.154)
fiction.

And so there again. Always beware of the messenger. It's one thing what the message is, but what and who is pulling the strings of the messenger or what effect?

What everybody's a puppet.

Everyone's a puppet. Now I belong to the EAA. We just had our air show, Banach Gash, largest air show in the world. Wonderful. And I just marvel like when we have the F-22s and the F-35s and they put on the show and what they are able to do and the way they are able to hover just standing with nose up and just bobbing on their thrusters until the ground starts to shake beneath them and they

and all the ones that kick in the afterburners and they shoot straight up like a rocket. Okay, that's our technology. But now that technology is even 15 years removed. can only imagine, I mean, the F-117, the stealth fighter goes back to the mid 80s.

Speaker 2 (01:35:11.723)
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:35:23.918)
The Blackbird, our super spy plane, 1959.

Mm-hmm.

come on.

the

telling you there's something to that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41.294)
which he really is. He is, he skirted the question on Avi Loeb.

So.

Just, you know, we would. Right. Yeah, right.

We don't know where he stands.

I am looking forward as we get closer to that date to having more conversations about that here on this space for sure. was gonna ask him because he mentioned the young it seems like there's one remaining first hand witness. He's trying to track down now an 88 year old woman and I wanted to see if what his hottest leads were.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15.566)
10.

Speaker 2 (01:36:24.504)
She the daughter of. There he is.

We were just, we just talking. You don't have to, yeah, we got it. The 88 year old woman that you're attempting to locate, the last, I love it, I love it. It's like you're a dog with a bone, I love it. So she is likely the remaining, the only remaining family.

Yes.

I will. And I will.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53.292)
Yeah, we're about children, obviously, at the time. We're talking about even the Roswell base personnel. If you were 18 back at the time, you know, you're almost 100 years old now. So, and I'm sure there may be a couple out there still, but the chances of finding them

Yeah, yeah. So here was my question. It was going to be how many, I guess what you would consider hot leads do you have? Is it that one there? Obviously the house that you talked about with the porch. I just wonder where you go from here in your investigation.

Well, as I had mentioned, we're doing another archaeological dig. We are still tracking down families. We

When I look back, oh, granted, we started the investigation at the beginning of 1989. That was our own independent investigation on Roswell. So it's before the internet. We had to physically track down the witnesses. There was no typing someone's name, you know, on a keyboard and hoping something might. No, we had to find these people and we were doing everything from credit checks.

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:38:16.878)
to air certification, assu them who have been pilots that they would have cont pilots, huh, it was the re were doing a motor vehi unit reunions. We would, where we would go to the h were having, you know, the would post notices out in anyone would be willing to

1947 and total cop and we were in rooms such and such that type.

free internet was a pain in the ass.

Yeah, but but but between Kevin Randall and myself, our phone expenses were over $1000 a month. Just tracking down witnesses and then we were making it a point to meet with them personally. Because we want to you know we wanted the eye contact. We wanted that you know perception of actually who we were dealing with and as they were conveying to us some of the most unbelievable information. No child trustworthy.

Right. I look into the eye. wonderful thing about eyewitnesses, especially first-hand testimony, is that they then, you need to talk to so-and-so. You know who you should talk to is so-and-so. And they have an idea of where they may live. And so it just became that domino that when we did the movie, the Roswell movie, we filmed it in the fall and early winter of 93.

Speaker 1 (01:39:52.47)
It premiered in July of 94. And then that fall when we were nominated best made for TV movie by the Golden Globes. And both Kevin Randall and I, because it was based on our first best selling book, Beautiful Crash at Roswell. And we were also technical consultants on the picture. We were there for, you know, the entire filming of the movie and we did cameos in the movie as well.

But so we're invited to the Golden Globes. And that night, we're sitting in the lobby of the Ramada Hotel at the airport in Albuquerque, watching the ceremonies, looking at one another, going, this is the stupidest thing we've ever done in our lives.

We are here on a research trip. But to know we did that, demonstrating that we were fully committed, fully devoted to doing all we could because we were racing with the Undertaker. Friedman would always say that too. We're racing with the Grim Reaper because the attrition rate already of that World War II generation was starting to speed up.

I there's nothing more frustrating. Then finally locating a witness. You make that phone call and you're told they passed away just a year before. We had one where it's the wife and she's just returning from the funeral.

Woof.

Speaker 1 (01:41:33.23)
and the information is go that's the point and you we've to faster. We you intensified, yo with a date, we've inter directly or indirectly in will continue tracking do have to date over 30 death

And we've talked to two more just in the last month. And that the fathers did confide that it was all true. Let's just say of each and every one of the deathbeds, not a one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:42:22.082)
says it was anything but what the first press release stated it was. An actual flying saucer. An actual flying saucer. And so not a one deviating as far as from, you know, the official government for explanations, that type of thing. So we're going to continue the hunt in that regard. And we still strongly suspect certain people. And we talked about it earlier.

actual flying saucer.

Speaker 1 (01:42:51.17)
with the idea of souvenirs are pieces that are hidden away. Right. And so.

That's a good point you slipped in there. Governments change their story four times.

Four times. Four times.

The best was in the 90s when the, what was the Air Force?

The anthropomorphic wooden crash dummies.

Speaker 2 (01:43:12.18)
even he didn't believe it when he was standing out there giving the press conference. He was like, yeah, well, it's a basically that's what they told me to tell you and that's what I'm telling you and I mean it's and you can't get to the site anymore either. mean,

That's what I wanted to ask you. You mentioned the archaeological dig.

They sealed it off, so to speak.

Where is this dig going to take place and do you need any volunteers to help?

of course we love that.

Speaker 3 (01:43:41.078)
Road Trip.

yeah

In fact, what we do is...

We invite specific people either because of their passion, their enthusiasm, or their wherewithal, their abilities, because we'll have archaeologists, we'll have geologists, and we have just people that relish the opportunity for being part of something historic with the thought that what if? What if?

I will be hurt if you don't invite me. Ditto.

Speaker 1 (01:44:17.24)
Guaranteed, you're both invited.

Do you have an idea what that might be?

Next year. That's the window. No, no, it will for sure be next year. I need to I was just there and there are new owners again. And they're the ones who are, you know, trying to create as many obstacles as they can for us. But I'm to go over their heads and I'm very confident that they're not going to stop us.

Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:44:48.92)
Don't tip your hand.

Why do you think that the people who own the land, and they don't own the particular land where the crash took place, but it's the surroundings, access to it, why are they so opposed to participation?

I like to believe it's because of our persistence. The fact that we don't give up. It's like if you remember the old TV series, which I consider one of the greatest of all time, The Fugitive, with David Jansen, Dr. Richard Kimball. And in one episode, there's Gerard once again in pursuit, and then Kimball looks back and, why doesn't he give up? When will he ever give up? You know, that type of thing.

And I just imagine some of powers that be and what Don Schmitz and Roswell again. Right. And so I hope I remain that burr as far as in their side in that all they can do is throw up obstacles and try to build the wall a little higher each time. But I don't take no for an answer. And I'm encouraged by it because obviously we're over the target.

And so I'd be more concerned if nothing was happening. I'm very concerned for the fact that they kept off that well, which we talked about, that they tore down the old Heinz house in that cistern room where we were told pieces were buried beneath. And who would have, and to what benefit, know, know, capping off a well that was still functional and then tearing down as far as one of the landmark structures out there that

Speaker 2 (01:46:32.386)
That was crazy.

That was crazy. It was a landmark. It was a landmark that was not in the way of anything. And then they build up a new a pole barn, a new shed, and it's a quarter mile away. So it's not like they replaced it with something. No, they just tore it down.

So here's a thought, and I have no idea when I say this, I have no idea where Elon Musk stands on aliens, but what if someone that has got quite a bit of money that is also interested in the Roswell story or just aliens in general, I'm sure this has already crossed your mind, that could buy this land. Approach them.

the site itself. Now it's landlocked by private property. ground zero is Bureau of Land Management Conservation property. But it always has been. Always has been. No, there was nothing. Both. No.

I don't know that I knew that. Sites. No, no, no, of course not. Of course not. The ranch. Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:47:36.84)
The brief field where we continue to have the archaeological work. Okay. There would be the greatest opportunity of finding a remnant, finding some artifacts from the cracks. Covered an area of almost a mile long. Correct. No, no. The brief field is beyond.

So the debris field.

the ranch but the bodies is BLM.

Speaker 3 (01:47:59.626)
OK. Gotcha. OK.

That's where we conduct the archaeological work.

And that was a dilemma we originally had that we had to address with the idea that what if we find something and the government could step right in and claim government property?

And so we struck a deal with them. Early on. That whatever we should find. You know, if you feel you have nothing. At risk here, hey, it's just a water balloon.

We want it displayed at Roswell Museum. And this went back and forth and we were going through the main BLM office in Santa Fe, the state capital. And then we also went through the Treasury Department in Washington, which is where BLM is actually as far as part of. And so they had agreed to that. Well, they have since rescinded.

Speaker 3 (01:49:05.39)
Okay.

For no other reason than when we had a 2002 dig with the sci-fi channel.

One of the people, one of the volunteers on our dig lifted a piece of material. It turned out to be a piece of duct tape, silver duct tape. And they were hitting the lecture circuit and they were touting, they were claiming it was a genuine article. Well, because it was in violation of our agreement with the BLM that it was to have gone, if it would have been any artifact taken from the site, that it would only be

publicized given it were at the UFO museum and here they were profiting by it and they violated that agreement. They withdrew the entire agreement.

And you haven't gotten it back in the 20s.

Speaker 1 (01:50:02.894)
I'm going to revisit it as we put this new dig together because it may, especially with the drones, it may be our greatest effort in covering the greatest amount of territory. And as a result, it may be the most expensive. And I like when you brought up like Ian Mosk, even the idea that, and we have had benefits, we have had people.

Not at that level, but that had been just wonderfully supportive through the years, because what we typically do is everybody makes their way to Roswell. They get there and then thereafter we accommodate. We pay for all the rooms. We pay for all the meals and we pay for all the transportation back and forth, you know, through the course of the project, that type of thing. So, but it's still and then all the equipment that we bring in.

And then we have to pay the archaeologists, we pay the geologists, and so we keep it as professional, certainly, as possible. But we've always had those opportunists who...

Yeah.

are looking for.

Speaker 2 (01:51:17.752)
fame and a buck.

Yeah, payment of buck and, you know, resume enhancement, I guess.

Right, which I have no problem. Hey, that's a it's a capitalist society. We are you know, i'm i'm all about payment of bucks

But within the parameters of an agreement.

Well, look, Don, it's always just fascinating to talk to you about this topic, and I look forward to, at some point in the future, not only talking with you again, but also being a part of future digs. I can't recommend enough. There's a 75th anniversary edition of this out.

Speaker 2 (01:51:57.198)
I'm holding up the old one. John, where's the new one?

but it says witness to Roswell on it so that's the title man. There we go there you go there you go witness to Roswell. Y'all it is so worth your time to this book and then don't forget the absolutely the new website did I get that right Roswell-investigator.com for all the latest goings on.

Never

Speaker 2 (01:52:12.034)
Yes it is.

Speaker 1 (01:52:22.99)
It's a work in progress, gentlemen, thank you as always. And you are guaranteed both invited because then, and it's not like it even came to mind earlier, whatever you guys would like to do as far as in regards to the show, as far as a part of the dig.

yeah, that'd be very cool.

I'm gonna go hang out.

That's my call. That's my call.

Well, and and I'm looking forward to next year during the UFO festival in Roswell want to take the Daily Mojo back down there and

Speaker 1 (01:53:00.078)
was wonderful, Brad. That was great. I mean, and I know you and we were short of speakers this year, as I'm sure they informed you. We had two cancellations at the last minute, so we should be fully up to speed next year. And so you'll you'll have your hands full.

Good. I love it. I love it. Looking forward to it.

Well, Don, thank you so much. Brad, thank you as well, buddy. I appreciate you hanging out with your tree frog aliens back there. Your best friends. And to all of you, thank you for hanging out as well. We'll return with the live streams after a little hiatus back on Thursday, September 4th. And Don, I wish you were going to be in Roswell when I'm going to the museum, but maybe next time for sure, because that is definitely on my list.

They're my best friends.

Speaker 1 (01:53:47.368)
or next festival.

Yeah, we'll definitely meet one day for sure. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank all of you. I hope you have a great rest of your day. Thanks for tuning in for At the Mic.