Keith Malinak (00:01.91)
Welcome to this edition of At the Mic. I am your host, Keith Malinak. It's the Thursday deep dive edition. Now this is pre-recorded. And if all goes well, it's October 30th and it's 3 p.m. Eastern. And you're hopefully watching this on X as if it were live. But I just wanted to be upfront with you just so that you know going in, we're a couple of weeks out from then. But it's kind of like a Halloween-esque type deep dive.

And it was the only way I could sync schedules with my buddy Tom Carr, which in fact, I forgot to check the date before we got started. He's been on this show before. All of the shows that we've done, they're pinned to the top there. All of the previous shows, I should say, pinned to the top here of my ex account. So if you want to click on that article that's pinned to the top, there it is, June 20th, 2024. It's right near the top of the...

of the thing there. And then there was another time that he was on here. So just scroll through there because Tom is always a lot of fun when we talk with him. And we needed him to be a part of this Halloween season here. Sorry, I'm just scrolling through here. Boy, there's a lot of conversations I had about election integrity. I see that. In fact, that reminds me, a week from today at 3 PM Eastern here,

at Keith Malinak on X. Jovan Pulitzer will be back. As we get an update, we're a year removed from the last election and we're a year before the midterms. And so we're going to check in with Jovan on November 6th. And we're going to see, is our election integrity process getting any better? What's the story there, morning glory? And so Jovan Pulitzer will be here. He is a brilliant mind and knows all sorts of stuff there.

in that realm. He's the tip of the spear at getting our election integrity. Friday live stream, Friday live stream. I gotta tell you that too. That's tomorrow at this time, 3 p.m. Eastern. Okay, let me get Tom in here. And let me give you my, here's the computer graphic if you wanna follow Tom Carr. See on X it's at T Carr P. See that? There you go. How are you Tom?

Tom Carr (02:21.43)
I'm great man, I even added it to my little name tag there. The first question for you, how's the nation's favorite Nana?

she's doing okay. actually it's pretty rough. I'm sorry. Two days after she turned 100, she injured her back and she's been really struggling with pain since then. I mean, she's in good spirits, but it's been a challenge. I can't imagine being 100 years old, but the birthday party itself, as many people saw on my ex account, she had a great day.

It's just she hasn't been able to shake that injury from a couple of days after that. So anyway, thanks for asking. But for being 100, she's doing great. OK, it's Halloween tomorrow. Again, if all goes according to plan, and this thing posts properly. So anyway, I had to get you in here. And I'm glad we could sync up schedules. This is the first recorded thing that I've done. So that's why I'm a little nervous here as we do this.

but hope all goes according to plan. And I wanted to get you in here and let's kind of reset you and your story, just a brief reset on how you got into ghost hunting and how long ago that was and where it's led you.

So it'll be 40 years in two two years. I've been doing this for 40 years off and on I mean not a solid 40 years, but I've always been diving into it and researching it and reading about it since I was 16. Got into it just because me and some friends that was kind of cool to go wandering through old cemeteries and haunted locations. We discovered a book called phone calls from the dead.

Tom Carr (04:13.954)
that talked about how you could record ghost voice. And we started doing that. We captured our very first EVP that said, get out. You don't belong here. EVP stands for electronic voice phenomenon. And we just got sucked in. I've had the pleasure of investigating some of the nation's greatest haunted locations, as well as some of the well, really unknown ones.

old cemeteries, Alcatraz, the Baron Wallemill in Utah, which doesn't exist anymore. So yeah, it's been an exciting and interesting experience as a history buff. I think I look at it that way more than anything. It's the history side of things. I mean, I got to go walking through an old

Cool.

Tom Carr (05:10.498)
military fort and mountain man for late at night. And I got to go walking into the rooms that you could usually only look at through a piece of glass. They had a door there. You couldn't go into those rooms. They opened those doors for us and let us go walking in there. I got to sit in places where, you know, some great historical figures had sat and that right there in itself is what excites me about ghost hunting. The history side of it. Then you throw in

seeing dark shadows or capturing an EVP or a full body figure standing in front of you saying, are you doing here? That stuff right there just gets you excited.

In fact, I hear a ghost somewhere behind you there right now. would be like that would be.

My dog upstairs apparently walking by. Bring him down here, but he likes to stick his nose right here and yeah.

was going to bring

Keith Malinak (06:06.648)
That's funny, I got you, man. okay. That's, and before we part ways today, I wanna ask you about some upcoming ghost tours, if you will, that you've got ghost hunts coming up here that are just fascinating to hear you talk about. Okay, so I guess if somebody says, hey, know, that sounds like a lot of fun, going out there and doing some ghost hunting. In fact, in fact, check this out, bro.

I gotta tell you a story about this. This right here, is a, what you call it? Like a electromagnetic radiation tester. So this guy right here. I bought this to just see where hotspots were around my house, maybe unhealthy hotspots, know, for EMF purposes and stuff like that. And it's been eye-opening. But my question to you is this can also double, right? As a ghost hunting,

Yeah, an EMF

Just like right here, this is the K2 meter that I have. I really like this. Again, yeah.

I don't like myself.

Tom Carr (07:18.146)
biggest issue with these things are is obviously you want to make sure there isn't a lot of electronics around you because they are going to they're pretty sensitive. there are lot. It's a lot of

Yeah, in fact there's another show pinned to the top there where you and I went out with a couple of my kids and did some ghost hunting and a proper host would have planned ahead and said hey here are the dates you know you remember when that was was it around Halloween as well?

It was right. It was like it was like the end of September because I was down in the Dallas area for a convention. So yeah, it was the end of September. OK. And then we filmed it and then we went live with the evidence, which was, you know. Ghosts, you never know what's going to happen. I wish I probably should have uploaded. We did capture one EVP of a little of a girl saying help.

Here's the thing about

Keith Malinak (08:16.59)
but and then you caught that after the fact right is that what it was yeah the fact yeah i mean in full disclosure like i think you started to say there not all ghost hunts you're gonna find something and in fact when we were there that night we didn't exactly experience firsthand

But we had a lot of equipment failure, which was very interesting.

the

Yeah, I've done two shows with you. And I've been on I've been on the the my gosh, the after. Yeah, I've been on Strange Encounters and I was on with you and and Pat after.

encounters.

Keith Malinak (09:03.65)
That's right, on overtime, yeah, okay. Yeah, thank you, wow. Yeah, absolutely. I'm just, now it's bugging me. Now it's bugging me, Tom, I'm just looking. Okay, June 20th was the first one. Yeah, shoot, okay. Anyway, let's get into the questions here about ghost hunting. And if someone like me, I mean, obviously, I've already got, can you hear it beeping?

Overtime

Tom Carr (09:29.166)
Yeah, you gotta get us wandering around you,

That's what it is. That's exactly what it is. You know what? That's funny, because there are ghosts in the machine on a regular basis with me. OK, if I wanted to say, if I wanted to start doing this stuff, how would you get in?

So this is actually a really good time of year. A lot of places do Halloween ghost hunts. I'm actually doing, well, since this is pre-recorded, I'm doing two events here in my local town. One on the 18th of October and one on the 25th. I'm doing a lectures at an old barn and event center. And they have a haunted little forest and stuff. So I'm gonna be doing those there.

Cough

Tom Carr (10:12.622)
And I'll post those on my ex, anybody who's in the Missouri area that wants to come out and check out talking to me about ghosts. I'll be doing those. One's going to be free. We're doing a food drive. And then the other one's going to be my adult only 18 and older lecture. So I dive into some of the darker stuff, which I think you and I are going to talk a little bit about today too.

Absolutely. Yeah. Go ahead.

But to get into these places, just Google ghost hunts. It's become so popular. Unfortunately, I think the prices are a little over the top. if you can find a place that lets you do private tours so you can limit how many people go, it may cost you a little bit more. But I highly recommend doing it that way, because a lot of these places will say, yeah, we'll do a ghost tour. And then they have like 50 people going on these ghost tours.

And they're just walking you through and all you're doing is just over, you're just overstepping everybody else. So I know in Jefferson city, Missouri, they have the old penitentiary. do ghost tours there. There are places in Colorado, the Stanley hotel does ghost tours. And then as far as I understand, I haven't done it yet. As far as I understand, it's pretty limited. Another place that I,

Yeah.

Tom Carr (11:35.948)
I've been wanting to go check out and haven't had an opportunity yet down in New Orleans. You can do the cemetery tours and they do ghost tours there.

and you mix in that voodoo stuff bro, I don't know. Yeah, but so.

Yeah, hopefully next year, next Halloween, I'll be I'll be down in New Orleans for that. All right.

Very cool. I'm only being halfway facetious when I say if I were a ghost, because people may not believe this about me, but I am 100 % an introvert. I really am. And if I'm a ghost and I see 50 people rolling up on me, I'm not going to want to go hang out over there. I'm better with the one-on-one stuff. Do you ever find that crowd sizes affect a ghost Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So now I've seen, I've seen both. It's very rare when you have a large group that activity happens, but if you can get a large group together, get them centralized, centralized, right. Control the environment and use their energy. I've actually seen activity increase.

Keith Malinak (12:38.388)
interesting.

So one of the things that we like to do is if we have a somewhat large group, if I ever do a ghost tour, I usually keep it between eight to 12 people max. That's including the investigators that are going with us. We've actually sat on at the Union Station in Ogden, Utah, which was once owned by Al Capone, I might add, and has the Browning, historical Browning Gum Museum on the second floor, which is really cool.

Okay.

Tom Carr (13:06.712)
but we were on their stage and we had like 12 people and we were just sitting in a circle, just talking and just, you know, talking about everything that happened that night, laughing, having a good time. And we started seeing dark shadows all around us. Like, what are these people doing? I want to be involved. So if you can control the situation and you can get people to be quiet and focused on something,

I think you can actually get better activity with a larger group. Okay. Now with a smaller group, you're going to notice things more. You're not going to have as much, false positive is what we call it. So you're not going to have people talking over and whispering. so you think you captured any. So I have my, where's my audio recorder. Here's my little audio recorder. So I always keep this around my neck turned on the minute I walk into a place.

and then I'll listen to the audio to see if I capture anything. But unfortunately, when you get these large groups, there's people that are talking like this, you know, they're whispering because they want to be polite. And I have literally told people, I understand you want to be polite, but you know what? Don't whisper, talk loud and talk clearly. That way I can determine whether or not I've actually captured something or if it's just one of you whispering. small groups are a lot more fun.

So.

Tom Carr (14:32.994)
Because you can have more interaction. You can tend to focus in on certain spots. And I think the activity is probably a little bit higher with a smaller group. So, I mean, it's all up to you. If you want to go and just have fun, take your friends along and see what happens.

So you mentioned the historical aspect to ghost hunting, which is an absolute draw for me. And then you also mentioned that Al Capone owned a train station in Ogden, Utah. And so while you're talking, I'm very interested in what you're saying, but I'm also thinking, why does a gangster need to own a train station? I bet there's a backstory there. need to There is.

actually. So Union Station in Ogden, Utah was one of the central hubs from San Francisco, California, the color and the Canada run. Okay. So they were bringing in bootlegged alcohol through the train station. They down in Ogden. Now here's the interesting thing about the city of Ogden. The Union Station is on historic 25th street underneath 25th street. They used to have a tunnel that connected the train station to all the little stores that were there.

So they wouldn't deliver freight on the road. They would take it through this tunnel underneath the road and they would just deliver to every store. Al Capone caught wind of it and it is considered the second kind of like the Shanghai tunnels in Portland where they had speakeasies down there, brothels. He owned a major part of this section in Ogden, Utah.

his gang. So did that not

Keith Malinak (16:19.067)
raise suspicions of the local authorities and what years on

Yeah, we're talking about Utah, obviously with the LDS church out there. It has always been a kind of a dirty kind of the underground town. it's it. Yeah, go ahead.

What I was gonna say, what years are we talking about again, do you know? Because wasn't this been not happening while- It was pro- That just seems like an extra layer of difficulty, like a degree of difficulty that's unnecessary. It must have been the setup then, not the geographical location then. I feel like you could have gotten away with something more in another part of the country.

Prohibition time? Yeah.

Tom Carr (16:53.144)
about.

Keith Malinak (17:05.314)
But you're saying that the uniqueness of how it's set up underground is what really.

Uniqueness of how it was set up underground and its location led to a lot of kind of dirty kind of underground stuff. have now the the tunnels themselves that are underneath 25th Street are pretty much collapsed now and covered in and most of the stores their basements have been cemented in. I do have an interesting story about it though. We were staying at a hotel that was right on 25th Street.

One of my buddies and I, were both big ghost hunters, we were down in the basement trying to find a way to get into the tunnel. We actually found behind a washing machine a hole in the wall. So we moved this, we were in this hotel, we're down in their laundry facility. We're not supposed to be there.

This is Ocean's Eleven stuff, bro!

Yeah, so we move this washing machine and we shine our flashlights and we see this tunnel and we go crawling in through this hole. Yeah, we found an old bar down there. Like it had the old Western style swinging doors. We didn't have any ghost gear. All we have is our flashlights and we're just exploring because we are both these huge history buffs going. This is so as we're down there, there were still tables and chairs in this bar.

Keith Malinak (18:23.886)
Cool.

Tom Carr (18:29.644)
we start seeing things moving and then the doors start swinging like this. So as we were crawling out, we crawled out of that tunnel and come back into the hotel and there was a lady doing laundry. She screamed bloody murder because we came crawling out from behind the washing machine, scared the living Jeeheemies out of her. The hotel manager was just pissed at us for doing it. And I was like, well, there wasn't anything they said we couldn't do that. There was no signs or anything.

So we went back about a month later and they had literally cemented up that wall.

Dang, that chick ruined it, man. okay.

Yeah, it was. But so there's a lot down in the Ogden area. I've done a couple of investigations at some of the businesses there on 25th Street and there was a lot of activity. So that's what draws me into it. The history side of stuff. Then you throw in somebody answering questions on an EVP or you get KT or K2 activity or EMF detection activity.

or you see a full apparition or a dark shadow. That just adds to it.

Keith Malinak (19:41.292)
That's, that's wow. Okay, so what counts then as evidence that satisfies you as being supernatural?

So I listen to everything. I'm very skeptical on everything that I do. And I have never ever said anything I've captured is defined proof of the paranormal. You've got to decide on your own. I have some very, good EVPs. I can link some of them on my page again, too. I know it's really hard for us to play them on your show, but on the 30th, if you go to my ex account, I'll link some of my better EVPs on there on the 30th.

Okay. So after this show, head over to my ex account and I actually have some already pinned, think on my page. I'll add some of those. But what I consider evidence is obviously a very clear voice on an EVP, typically responding to a question that is asked or making a comment about what's going on.

I have a really cool EVP where a little girl, you can hear a little girl come up to us and say, what are you guys doing? What's going on here?

cool.

Tom Carr (20:56.076)
There was no kids at all on the ghost hunt with us at all.

I misplaced your computer graphics. I had to make a new one. Yeah, check out his account at TcarP. Okay. And if you're listening, it's T-C-A-R-R-P. Okay. That's pretty cool, man. And because I know you have plenty of photos and stuff like that. I just chose some very strange things.

I just posted one on my ex account that I had captured at the Wendover Air Force Base. Anybody who knows history, that's where they loaded up and tested the bombs that they dropped on Hiroshima. Very historical location just out, just on the border of Utah and Nevada out by Wendover, Utah. And it's a photograph and it looks like a person, a shadow. You can see their face.

and it's glowing and it's across the photograph. I just posted on, I'll go find it on my exit account and I'll pin it to the top.

photographs is that they're rarely rare. It's very rare to capture anything on a photo. I've captured more EVPs than I have ever caught photos. And I think maybe it's just that takes a lot of energy for them to project themselves as a photograph. Or maybe we're just not lucky enough to figure it out. One of the things that I've been wanting to do, and I'm hopefully going to get to do this if we can ever get into Glenn's museum.

Tom Carr (22:34.624)
I want to set up my camera, just my digital camera for time lapse and just let it sit one place and do like a 30 second photo for every minute and just see what happens if we capture anything, the camera is just snapping away.

Right, well if you'll recall, I mean there was something that was caught on camera inside the museum by Glenn's museum years ago.

That was what drew me to the museum in the first place. As much as I would love to sit down and talk with Glenn, as much as I love talking with you, but talking with Glenn would be just, it would be a bucket list of mine. So anybody who's listening, tag Glenn Beck and say, you need to have Tom on your podcast. That would be awesome.

yes it would be. Yeah it would be. You say at TcarP and at Glenn Beck. Yeah we got to make this happen. Yeah I'm constantly trying to.

Yeah, I want to experiment more with photography because I think the cameras, their megapixels and their clarity has become so high res. Yeah. I'm thinking you might have a better chance of capturing now. We used to think that we caught better EVPs on old cassette players than we did with the digital. I am slowly by gradually realizing now and maybe it's just they've learned how to manipulate the digital

Tom Carr (24:08.696)
better. I'm capturing clear EVPs digitally than I am analog. So one of the other things that I've noticed, here's a great way to determine. So if you go into Ghost Hunt, you have an audio recorder and you ask a whole bunch of questions like, know, what is your name? How old are you? Where did you bury the gold? What's your social security number? Those questions that I like to ask.

Okay.

Keith Malinak (24:32.066)
Yeah, any question. Yeah.

you get a response, one of the things you can look for 99 % of the time when we capture an EVP, right before you hear the EVP, there's a pop and right after there's a pop. Almost 100 % of the time we've noticed this. And a lot of people didn't connect this to about 15, 16 years ago when the internet was starting getting big and all these ghost hunters across the country were starting to communicate with each other.

Mm.

And I started talking to this guy named Ross Larson, who's a good friend of mine, who's been doing this as long as I have. And I asked him just out of curiosity, have you ever noticed a little popping sound right before an EVP and right after? And he's like, my gosh, yes. So we started asking other ghost hunters and we started comparing EVPs. And that pop is almost the exact same frequency on every EVP that we've ever caught. And I think what it is, is it's them building up their energy.

and then expanding it to make the communication and then it's dropping down and it's ending that communication.

Keith Malinak (25:45.09)
There, there, there, yeah. Yeah, so, so, yeah, I remember you telling me this last time. That is, that's something else. So is the loudness of the pop, I know the frequency is the same, is the intensity of the volume of that energy pop, does that correlate with the length of the message? Because obviously the messages are typically really, you know, brief, right? I mean, they're really quick.

Five to five to 15 seconds long.

Right, so if it's a 15 second message as opposed to a two second or three second message, is that pop more intense then or is it the same?

You know, that's a very good question. have no answer for, but now you've got me wondering if that's the case.

get back to us on that. So yeah, there's, there's, there's, there's multiple, well, let me, let me, before I get into that question, would you say that the evidence as far as ranking them would be seeing it with your own eyes, seeing something move would be the next desirable evidence-based situation there. Maybe then it's the hearing it.

Tom Carr (26:34.49)
Check that one.

Keith Malinak (27:00.354)
Then it's the EVP reading. And then maybe down here is the.

I lost you, Keith.

Okay, can you hear me now?

We're back, but I lost you for about a few seconds. That's the whole question.

So I was just right. OK, that's fine, because it was pretty cumbersome anyway. But I was just trying to say, like, if you're ranking the preferred evidence, you obviously want to see the aberration with your own eyes. And then maybe the next step would be something moving. And then maybe it's the photographic evidence. Then it's the EVP or the audio.

Tom Carr (27:34.316)
And I think it's the opposite. think really I think it's the opposite. I think it's EVPs and then movement or one of the other things that I like to do is a flashlight. And it's funny, I actually was the first person to ever do this. So you take an old mag flashlight and you twist it so it's just not on.

yeah, yeah, this is good stuff.

And then you ask ghosts to make the light turn on and off once for yes and twice for no. And I've got video of this happening. I was the very first ghost hunter to ever do this. I put it up on my website at the time. Within three months, I was seeing it on all the TV shows. Everybody was doing it.

Bro, you're a pioneer. They didn't give you credit. I'm kind of glad. They didn't call it the car method.

that I

Tom Carr (28:28.812)
Yeah, the car method. Anyway, or movement. I think that would be the next step. Obviously, seeing a full apparition. It's amazing. I've had it happen. I've literally walked into a room and seen someone standing right in front of me, looking at me and asked me a question and then disappear as solid as you are. That is amazing. But the thing is, is that it's so rare that I would not

put it as the highest proof of Kala normal.

So, a lot of times.

Sometimes I'm the only one who sees it. So if I want to prove this, EVPs are probably the best way to prove something is active in the house. If I ever caught a photograph of someone, that would be really good. But then again, we have what we call the matrix theory. So maybe the digital photograph is just capturing things that aren't really there and your brain is just seeing something that isn't really there. You're making an image out of

I will.

Tom Carr (29:33.048)
little dots.

Okay, so when you walked into that room and that ghost was standing there, I gotta know what kind of a question does a ghost ask?

So here's, so it was, I was seven, I was 18 years old. I had to have been 18 because I had just become a Mason. I joined the Masonic order because I was with the youth group, DMA. I don't know if you know anything about DMA, but anyway, it's, it's the Masonic youth fraternal organization. I was at the Salik Masonic temple, which is extremely haunted. And we were looking for a room to hold a state office meeting. I wasn't on a ghost hunt.

I was my buddy Bill and I, Bill was like, I'm going to go look over here. You go look over there. So I go walking up, I go walking into one of the altar rooms and there's a guy there, tuxedo apron hat, full masonic gear. And he looks at me goes, what are you doing here? I said, I'm sorry. D. Malay looking for a place to hold a meeting. And he goes, only masons are allowed in here. And I said, well, I just got my third degree. He says, show me the sign. So I showed him the sign and he disappeared in front of me. And I went, huh.

We're not going to use this room.

Keith Malinak (30:44.344)
the

Yeah, man.

Tom Carr (30:53.826)
Yeah, now I, well that's awesome. I've become very desensitized by a lot of this stuff. Bill, where's the room? Where's the room? And we'd go walking in there and he's like, this is where we need to do it. I'm like, he's in here tonight, Bill. So.

But I went and told about and he's like, group.

the

I only got to the third degree. Then I decided to dive back into my church. I've mentioned this. I'm LDS.

Do you start taking over the world though? Is that the 33rd?

Tom Carr (31:29.112)
36th, think. I don't know. Yeah, something like that. But I never really, I stopped.

So you can stop, it's not like the mob. can just... No.

No. I just stopped paying my dues and they just didn't come.

Now they're not interested. Okay, so there's obvious, well, I won't say obvious. I would say predominantly the people that I talk to that believe in ghosts are of the opinion that there is a certain spiritual element to this phenomenon. And in that vein, talk to us kind of...

Cause I know you talked to Rick Burgess about some of this talk. Let's talk about some of the darker aspects of ghost hunting and kind of the trap people get into with that.

Tom Carr (32:15.79)
So here, yeah, this is one of the things that I wanted to bring up. I've been noticing this a lot because of the movies, The Conjuring and The Nun and showing these darker sides of paranormal investigation. The Warrens who did Annabelle Horror, who were in The Conjuring, two fantastic paranormal investigators.

who focused in on nothing but the dark side. People are starting to dive into that because they want to see it. And I'm sitting here thinking, what are you insane? That's just crazy. I've had in the almost 40 years of ghost hunting, I've done four demonic investigations, two actual possessions, two demonic houses that need to be cleansed.

I never ever want to do it again. The very first one, I was sick for about a week after. Yeah, that's right. Physically drawn, emotionally drawn. It was just such, and depressed. mean, just so negative, that negative energy. But because of these shows, people are now doing things.

that I think will open them up to more negative energy. They're starting to ask darker questions. They're starting to try to find these evil entities because they see the movies and they think, well, that's cool. I want to do that. And I'm sitting here thinking, no, you're going down a very dark path. It's going to lead you to something that's worse and it can destroy lives.

One of the things that I've been noticing a lot lately and it's because, and one of the TV shows did it, it's the SD project or SD something or other, can't pronounce it correctly. But basically what you're doing is that you have two people in a room. One of them is putting on soundproof or noiseproof earphones, blindfolding themselves, and they're putting a ghost box next to them. A ghost box is basically a radio that just spins through all the channels.

Tom Carr (34:33.174)
And the theory is that the ghost box will stop on certain, the ghost can stop on certain words to answer you. now I have some issues with the ghost box. think it's, I think they, I don't believe that they actually really work. But the biggest issue I have is now you have one person in a room in a haunted location, basically turning off all of their senses.

And I-

Tom Carr (35:01.614)
and opening themselves wide open to whatever is there, drawing whatever that could be there into them and possibly. I don't. Exactly. Possession. Don't do this. Don't don't don't start diving into these dark things. 40 years of this and I don't want to do it.

Sounds like a zesh.

Tom Carr (35:30.062)
There are people out there who specify or specifically design or have been training themselves to do this. They've developed some sort of protections. They've developed ways to keep themselves safe. And even those aren't safe. If you want to be a ghost hunter, that's great. Just don't dive into the dark stuff. Focus in on all the fun things. And for heaven's sakes, don't copy the TV shows.

the TV shows are only there because they're getting ratings. If they don't get ratings, they're not going to be TV shows anymore. So they are, they are pushing the limits and that is dangerous for a new paranormal investigator, somebody who's never ever done this before. one of the other issues that I have too is you get a lot of these guys, a lot of these teams that are like, yep, we can be ghost hunters. This TV show is really cool. And they get four or five people together who have never ever done this.

And then they get somebody who calls them up and says, yeah, I think my house is haunted. Can you come check it out? yeah, we'd love to do it. And they go into this house where these people that are living something. I don't want to say dark, but something big happens. It scares these brand new ghost hunters who are supposed to be the professionals who are supposed to know better, get freaked out and run out of the house. And now the homeowner is like, well, what the hell am I going to do now? These professionals were scared.

What am I going to do? I really discourage new ghost hunters from doing private investigations of people's homes. I think you need at least four or five years under your belt before you start doing that. you can become desensitized by a lot of it. Because obviously, again, if you are so freaked out, you are now leaving these people in their home wondering, well, how dark or how evil is this ghost? And it may not be. just may be

a ghost who's like, I don't want to talk to you, you're bothering me, you're in my home, you're trespassing. So I think it could lead to more dangerous stuff. Become more experienced as a ghost hunter before you start doing these private investigations. Go to cemeteries, go to old buildings, go on these ghost tours, rent out private places and do them in.

Tom Carr (37:56.11)
I guess the best way for me to describe this, think there's two types of ghost hunts. There's a ghost hunt and there's a paranormal investigation. A ghost hunt is, hey, we're going to go to a museum, we're going to bring our toys, see if we get anything. And ultimately at the end, nobody really cares what we find, but us. Paranormal investigation is we're going to go to this location, we're going to bring our gear and somebody wants to know what we found.

whether it's an owner or somebody who works there. So you're presenting evidence to someone on a ghost hunt. The only evidence you're presenting to is yourself and your other team members. Stay away from paranormal investigations until you've gotten a couple of years under your belt because one, you could be sharing something that really isn't evidence and you could be freaking somebody out unnecessarily on a paranormal investigation. Learn the steps to becoming a ghost hunter.

So ghost hunting and paranormal hunting.

two different things.

Tom Carr (39:02.252)
Yeah, so a paranormal investigation is somebody wants to know why their house is haunted or why their building is haunted. I got it. hunting is, we think it's haunted, go have fun.

Okay, so ghost hunting is kind of like cold calling in sales. Paranormal is I got a hot lead. Let me go and...

Exactly.

Tom Carr (39:21.054)
And that hot lead wants to know what we found.

Okay, gotcha. All right. I personally don't enjoy horror flicks or scary shows. I can't even stand the trailers of these things, man. And so I could see how that would open you up and kind of pave that path for you,

It's an interesting thing. I used to I usually do September, September 1st, I start 61 days of horror. So I watch a horror movie every single day.

That's right, that's right.

I got a week into it and God help us all, Charlie Kirk was killed. I saw that video. I have no desire to watch a horror film again. I have not wanted to because of what happened. Those dark things open us up and then when we see it in reality, I think it snaps us back into place.

Keith Malinak (40:16.98)
Interesting, man. Gosh. Okay, so you talk about opening us up to these dark forces. Because if you believe there is a spiritual battle happening around us, warfare is happening around us, then you have to just, I would imagine, right? Just by common sense, okay, if I think that there is spiritual warfare happening around me, then clearly,

there are dark elements around me. So are Ouija boards harmless fun that teenage girls do on the weekend at a sleepover party or is there something sinister there?

I think it can lead to sinister. Whenever somebody comes up to me and says, well, I don't like Ouija boards, they're evil. And I'm like, okay, why do you think they're evil? Well, when we were teenagers, we sat in the basement with all the lights off, candles around us with a Ouija board, and we asked if Satan was real.

Tom Carr (41:24.546)
Why? Why would you? Why? If you've got the Ouija board that was sold to teenage girls that's pink, it comes with pre-printed questions like, is my boyfriend going to be cute?

NOW!

Tom Carr (41:43.862)
you're not inviting in negative energy. I don't recommend using a Ouija board because typically you start off with a Ouija board asking innocent questions and then some bonehead in the group is going to start asking the stupid questions regardless because of the negative aspect of the Ouija board. The Ouija board or the spirit board is one of the oldest devices for communicating with the dead. has been

What's the history of this thing? I don't even know.

So it started off with Sticks and Bones. There are many different Ouija boards and different styles of Ouija boards. Again, I need to hook you up with Heather Joseph Whitham, who's a dear friend of mine, who is a folklorist. You should really have her on your show. She could dive into all of this stuff for you. She's been on MythBusters, on Discovery Channel. So she's like, she's the person I go to.

whenever I have a question about mythology or urban legends. You could probably do a two hour show with her on urban legends all day long and just love her. But yeah, so Ouija boards have a pretty long history as far as spiritual things go.

What was her name again?

Tom Carr (43:04.386)
Heather Joseph Wittum.

Okay, and I mean, I love urban legend type stuff.

she's amazing. I took her on a ghost hunt and we became really good friends. She's the polar opposite politically of us. Brought her out to Utah to do a ghost hunt and we took her to a gun range. right. She had the time of her life.

Yeah.

Keith Malinak (43:35.798)
That's the thing there are so many people who are afraid of guns and gun culture and if you just expose them to it It's been an afternoon shooting Now they're ready to for self defense anyway, okay

Anyway, we're going off on a tangent, anyway, would be great. So yeah, the Ouija board has a lot of darker history because it was used by gypsies and witch doctors and things like that.

And how far back does it go, do you know? I don't know. You keep talking. I'll look at it.

Yeah, centuries. mean, it's pretty old. Like I said, I personally, if I remember correctly, it was the first kind of spiritual device used to communicate with the other side. Mary Lincoln was huge into the Ouija board and the seances.

Yeah. Yeah. It kind of goes back to the, so gain popularity in the civil war, but,

Tom Carr (44:30.894)
Some of the other.

Tom Carr (44:37.512)
Yeah, during this spiritual and occult.

The first one that was sold was 1886. So that's interesting though. But yeah, it gained popularity. mean, it started before the Civil War, but it became popular around that time, which is, you know, kind of lines up with Mary Todd. Boy, interesting. Sorry, continue.

Yeah, some of the other things that I think you should avoid, obviously asking certain questions like, is this the devil or I want to talk to a demon, know, things like that. Avoid that stuff.

Hey, you got a demon with an earshot. Hey come over here. We got a group in Texas wants to talk

One of the things that I also tell people is imagine you're in a giant hamster ball. That hamster ball is around you. Drill some holes in it so you can breathe. And if you believe here and here that nothing can penetrate that hamster ball, most likely nothing will. Kind of sets up an imaginary barrier of protection.

Keith Malinak (45:26.552)
Okay.

Tom Carr (45:48.846)
At the end of every ghost hunt, always tell people make sure you say hey, thanks for communicating with me Thanks for visiting with me. Please don't follow me home. This is where you belong

Yeah, but do you say that once you get to your car, you need to say that back in the house?

Either way, it doesn't matter.

Because what's the whole getting followed home thing that.

So I've actually forgotten to do this several times.

Keith Malinak (46:15.7)
I love this story, tell us man.

So we were at Merker Cemetery and had an extremely intense night, dark shadows. My gun in my holster got wiggled, brutally physically moved. It was an intense night and it was a lot of fun. I took two authors with me. One of them was named Paul Janess and the other one is a New York Times bestseller, name is Larry Caria.

He is wrote Monster Hunters International. He's doing American Paladin right now. So he's just big, huge monster of a guy. We freaked him out. But anyway, it was a really cool night. I get in my truck and I'm driving home and I look in the rear view mirror and there's somebody sitting in the back seat. And I went by myself, almost lock up my brakes, stop, pull over and go, hey, listen,

I just saw you. appreciate that. You need to go back to the cemetery. Don't follow me home. It takes a lot to freak me out. That freaked me out because you look in your rear view mirror and there's somebody sitting behind you. You know?

So hold on, let's explore this for a second. OK. Do ghosts, so can they just travel from point A to point B very easily? And the reason I ask that is based on what you're talking about here. Like if you say, get out, can he just snap back to the place where he started the cemetery there?

Tom Carr (47:47.34)
I think so. I think there are some limitations on some spirits. think some spirits just don't want to leave the location. Other ones can attach themselves. have, well, I had, he's not been around a long time. So I did the investigation at the window over Air Force Base. I was in the mess hall and I was asking some derogatory questions for people in the military that I would think would offend them and get a reaction.

to get.

I was basically questioning their sexual preference.

Tom Carr (48:24.974)
And I said, well, if you can't do this, you must be gay. At that very second, I felt a hand hit my chest and a foot behind me do a military swoop and both my feet shot straight up. And I landed flat on my

Bro.

After that, we had a ghost attach itself to me and then later on attached to both my boys. His name is Matt. He's very protective of the family. I actually had some psychics tell me several, not just one, not just two, six to, I think it was six or eight different psychics say, I don't know what ghost is attached to you, but he's related to you and he's very protective.

We didn't know his name until my son at the time was eight and I bought him one of these. It's my old digital recorder. I bought him one like this so he could have music and MP3s. What does my eight-year-old son do? Well, I want to be like dad. Walks into his bedroom and starts holding a ghost investigation in his bedroom. And he says, is there any ghosts here? What is your name? And very clearly he gets an EVP that says Matt.

We were in a brand new spanking apartment complex. It wasn't like it was old and haunted. So we believe now Matt isn't attached to me, but he is with my son and my daughter-in-law. And he watches over our grandson because they've had experiences in their home where Sawyer, my grandson, who's blind, will just sit and stare at a spot

Tom Carr (50:12.702)
and their dog will sit and stare at spot in his bedroom. So we believe Matt is very protective and he followed me home and some reason or other were genetically connected and he just feels like he's got to protect us.

So you don't know how, just based on-

know how. Yeah, I've got some fan. I've done some family history and there's some Matthews in my family history, but none that would be connected to the window for Air Force base that I can.

Wow, okay, that actually reminds me, Kelly, who does the Barflee episodes with Brad and myself every couple of months, I have asked her the next time we get together on December 11th, I want her to go through, because I just realized, I just learned recently that she has, throughout her life, had five ghosts hanging out with her, and they've kind of, I guess, dropped off as she's gotten older.

And it's just wild, man. It's just wild. Hold on. Do you know what kind of blood type you are?

Tom Carr (51:13.598)
I'm all positive.

because her theory is something to do with Rh negative. Okay, just checking. All right.

No, yeah, well,

Tom Carr (51:24.046)
And that's an interesting question, though. I kind of would like to talk to her about that myself.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, seek her out. It's Kelly for Freedom on Twitter. I'll take a look in. Here we go. See, I found her computer graphic too. There it is, Kelly. Kelly for Freedom.

I will look for her out.

Okay.

I do believe that spirits can. I mean, we have guardian angels. We have family members that check in on us. I'll share one of my favorites. This is maybe I've shared this before, but I was doing a ghost hunt at the Salt Lake City Cemetery, which is probably one of the oldest cemeteries in Salt Lake City. I always like to go to these places before we're doing the investigation just to kind of wander around so we don't accidentally fall into a hole or get hurt.

Tom Carr (52:15.928)
So I'm walking down this one road and I see this older man sitting on a tombstone. And I go, hey, how are you? And he says, you can see me? And I stopped and I turned and I looked and he's gone. Just like that. Like I'm coming back here as soon as it gets dark. So we go back there and we start doing an EVP session. And I asked the question, what are you doing here? And I got an EVP that says, I'm waiting for my family.

So we looked at the date and it was close to the day that he died. So is he coming to visit his grave site every year? Who are visiting his grave site?

wow.

Keith Malinak (53:02.392)
So that's why I'll do it. That's cool. So hold on a second. Let me ask you this. Do you think that people such as yourself, such as Kelly, certain people, I guess, more, what am I trying to say? Do they draw the energy more easily? Yeah.

With the spirits more in tune with the spirits.

What do think of that?

Yeah, I think so. I also think too that I believe in an aura energy. We all have our giant boxes, giant batteries. We have this energy that projects around us. They've actually shown people in thermal cameras that have different energies that can be projected around them. I think there are some people who have an energy that ghosts are naturally attached to. one reason or another, they

they say, that person's going to be more willing to listen to me than that person. I think paranormal investigators, people who been doing this for a long time, that energy slowly but gradually changes by our interactions with ghosts. So when I walk into a haunted location and you walk into a haunted location, I've been doing this so long, ghosts are going to say, ooh, that guy right there, the short, fat, bald one, he's probably going to

Tom Carr (54:23.042)
be more willing to listen to me than the skinny bald guy.

So they're they're they're possibly seeing something that

energies that they're seeing our, let's just call it our soul, our energies themselves. They're seeing that dimension side that we are not seeing. So they become more willing to communicate with me because they go, well, he's going to most likely listen to me because he's listened to other ghosts or his energy is projecting that image that they would find more interesting.

I do believe that women, especially women, are more in tune to the spiritual side. I think it has a lot to do with them, the ability to give birth and their mothering mentality. I'll share another experience that I had. Merkur Cemetery again. I love Merkur Cemetery. It's a great place. out in Utah. Old, old cemetery. I took a couple of people up there and there was a younger girl there.

And I kept seeing a little spirit next to her, just a child almost, clinging on to her like it was scared. In the middle of the night, I just looked at her I says, are you pregnant? And she looked at me she goes, how did you know? I haven't told anybody.

Tom Carr (55:54.542)
I said, there's a, I can't tell if it's a boy or a girl, but there's a little child energy that has been clinging to you this entire night.

Tom Carr (56:10.39)
was the baby spirit there? I don't know. I just thought it was interesting. But I do think women are more in tuned to this. I've gone on ghost hunts and women have just, I've done a ghost hunt with nothing but women. And the energy was insane. I mean, over the top investigation. They're more willing to accept it. They're more willing to listen to it.

And I think men are naturally skeptical and women aren't. So maybe that has something to do with it as well.

Okay, tell us about a couple of these ghost hunts that you're about to go on. These sound like fascinating locations even if there are no spirits present.

So obviously this is pre-recorded, I'm not gonna see it. So I'm doing one on the 11th of this month. I'm going down to the Mark Twain's National Forest. And where's that? It's in Missouri.

Okay.

Tom Carr (57:09.454)
I found this old cemetery. I'm a photographer. like to take pictures. And I saw the pictures of this old cemetery and I went, ooh, this place has just been overrun, hasn't been taken care of. I bet it's haunted. So me and my dog are gonna go down there and hang out for the night on a little camping trip. I'm gonna bring the gear. I'm gonna bring the camera, take some pictures.

let us know, man.

and then I've got a couple other that I'm working on. my wife and I are planning on going down to the Crescent Hotel in Eureka Springs, Arkansas in January. This place apparently is extremely haunted. we had, I had somebody tell me that him and his wife were there all night long. They had lights coming on and off the bathroom light kept turning on. they had doors opening to the point where his wife was like,

We need to leave. I can't sleep. This is not fun. So it's a pretty haunted location. There's a couple other cemeteries that I want to check out. And there is a place that I've been working on. It's in Nebraska. It's an old house that has some really good history. The owner is very reluctant to let me do it by myself. I'm slowly, gradually trying to talk him into it. I keep telling him like,

I reached out to him and said, yeah, I'd like to investigate this house that you are. He's like, that'd be great. How many people are coming? I said, well, just me. He said, huh, just you? I'm like, yeah, just me. Yeah, I don't know if I could let just a single person in there. Won't you be scared?

Keith Malinak (58:50.954)
man.

Not at all, just me. Unfortunately, he wants like 400 bucks for me to do it.

All right.

We'll see talking about it

Now, okay.

Tom Carr (59:06.466)
I share a recent experience that I just had. current job, I work in a little town here in Missouri called Lone Jack. Lone Jack is the site of a Civil War battle. They have a historical site there where the battle took place. There's an old, and I'm going to go work on trying to get into this little hotel that they have there. One of the guys that I work with says, you didn't go check out this coffee shop. They've got really good food.

So I wondered, thought, okay, I didn't bring lunch today. I'll go check it out, see what it is. No, I did not order coffee for all us Mormons. I didn't get coffee. I walked into this building and the minute I walked in, there was a ghost that was like, boom, right here. Just sucked right onto me. And then I walk up to the counter to place my order and in the far corner I could see a little child.

day.

Tom Carr (01:00:01.868)
huddling in the corner. could just see the energy of that little child. I'm in here for about 20 minutes waiting for my food to get cooked and prepared. And that's, I'm wandering around and that thing was on me the entire time.

What was its deal,

I wanted to talk and I was just trying to ignore it because I just didn't want these first time I walk into a business and you see some crazy guy talking to himself, you know, they're never going to let me in. So I, I go back to work and I walk in and the guy who told me about the place I looked at him and says, that place is as haunted as all hell. What? I said, Oh, there's two ghosts in that building. There are two ghosts in that building.

Yeah.

Tom Carr (01:00:48.158)
One is projecting himself as a little child or as a child. And the other ones, I want to say 18 to 20s. And he's like, sure. And I'm like, believe me or don't believe me. I don't care. I'm just telling you that place is haunted. So he goes in the next day and he tells the owner, yeah, my boss came in here and he said there's two ghosts in there. The owner went completely white. And she's like, how does he know that two people died in this building?

Wow, man. no.

Back in yet I'm going to go back in and start kind of building a relationship with them. This and investigate the place and see what I can find. But yeah, that was pretty cool.

Right,

Keith Malinak (01:01:30.7)
Let me run a few things by you. is very cool. Keep us updated on that.

The house is on the battlefield.

bro. That was a hospital, You know, like, they turn houses next to battlefields into makeshift, mash units, you know? okay. So I have three things for you. Number one. Have you ever been to Massachusetts?

Or return, yeah.

Tom Carr (01:01:56.47)
I I've visited, but I've never had the opportunity to ghost on.

Okay. You know, like, and I should have had an example already, but didn't know we were going down this road.

in Lexington, Concord, Boston, all these really, old OG American towns. They have those stereotypical creepy old cemeteries with the rudimentary headstones that are 300 plus years old with the wrought iron fence, you know, and you're just waiting for the black cat to stand on top of one of the tombstones at night type thing. They have those.

Those are the places Tom Carr needs to go with his equipment. That's one thing.

Tom Carr (01:02:44.724)
Yeah, we were going to go down to because of the new job, we had to change some plans, but my wife and I were planning on going to Orleans for Halloween. So I had to cancel our trip. So hopefully next year we'll be able to do that. We also want to go to Sleepy Hollow during Halloween. would even just just during autumn. I've always wanted to do those old towns during autumn because they're just gorgeous.

gets drawn to them. And the ghost turner in me is like, ooh, there's got to be a places that are haunted. I would love to do Gettysburg. haven't had the opportunity. It's only like a 12 hour drive from me. So one of these days I'm going to do it. One of the other places that I want to do, I don't know if you're into, I'm a big jazz and blues fan. I love blues and jazz music. There's a story of a gentleman named Robert Johnson.

He is the guitarist who said he sold his soul at the crossroads to a demon to be able to play guitar. His, his, his, um, gravestone and his grave site is only eight hours from my house. I have got to get down there. So I'm such a big fan of I want to just go down there and just investigate his, his gravestone just to see if anything there is. One of the other cool things about Missouri is Missouri was a pioneer state.

Yeah.

Tom Carr (01:04:09.934)
There are little tiny cemeteries everywhere. You can't drive down a back country road without seeing two to three of these little family or old cemeteries that are in disarray. Yeah. I think a disarrayed or unpreserved cemetery is a lot more active because I think the spirits that are there are frustrated that nobody's visiting them, nobody's taking care of them.

So I think the activity is a little bit higher. So I've done a couple around here. I've had a little activity, haven't captured anything. They've been, you know, short trips and stuff like that. So I'm working on trying to get through some of those. did investigate Hans Mill. I think we've talked about this. Or maybe not. Maybe I talked to Pat about it. Hans Mill is here in Missouri. It is a historical site.

Um, rights before the Mo and governor Boggs decid law that said you could ju

Keith Malinak (01:05:19.668)
Six for six.

Anyway, Hans Mill, there was a group of Mormons there that a mob of 200 men came in and massacred pretty much everyone. think it was 19 or 20 people were killed, two of them were children. So I decided to go down and do a ghost hunt last year. I was just sitting there and as the activity started to happen, I started hearing footprints on the gravel road next to me.

Just as activity started to happen, a whole bunch of teenage kids showed up and just ruined it. They spent the entire time asking me questions and.

Because they were you doing here? I'm just you know, just hanging out. Well, here are those ghosts here. And I'm like, yeah, I'm looking for ghosts. And they just start. So I want to go back and do that one again, too. I actually had a family member that was killed there. So I'm related to one of the people that died there. my god.

Ha ha!

Keith Malinak (01:06:24.302)
Okay, so let me ask you this deep question, then I wanna go back to a couple of places you were talking about there. As a Christian, how do you reconcile the afterlife with these spiritual entities still hanging out here on earth, hanging out at their grave sites or in a building where a tragedy happened? Like that's always been something that's just kind of...

been in the back of my mind, you know, are they in two places at once? What's the story there?

So I do have a theory on My faith believes that the separation between us and them is through a thin veil. A lot of people have that same theory. The typical purgatory, Catholics believe in purgatory, Mormons believe or Latter-day Saints, I always try to get that right now, Latter-day Saints believe in a spiritual prison.

A place for those that have not accepted Christ or have not been given the opportunity to receive Christ as their savior here on earth are in this spiritual prison. I believe that is a separation from Christ themselves and that is here on earth and it is just separated by a thin veil. also, so I think sometimes some of those spirits cross through that veil or the veil is thinner in certain places.

easier to communicate with those on the other side. I also believe that there are spirits that just don't want to admit they've died for one reason or another. Maybe they feel guilty for something. Maybe they have unresolved issues here on earth. They just don't want to admit they've passed on and they still are wandering the home that they grew up in or wandering the workplace that they lived in. Maybe,

Keith Malinak (01:08:23.502)
I'll take

take the Baron Woolen mill as a really good example. One of the ghosts that were there, his name is Phil. We confirmed his death. We confirmed his name. He was a caretaker of the Baron Woolen mill and he worked overnight. Friday, Saturdays and Sundays, he would maintain the machines, do all of the stuff, clean up after everybody. He had a heart attack on a Saturday night, they believe, and he wasn't found till Monday morning.

I believe Phil, it was still attached to the building, still trying to maintain it and take care of it because of his love for not only his job, but for the, for the building itself. He, I have seen him multiple times, full apparitions. I started taking care of this place. I started doing the yard work there. started keeping the weeds down. We started trying to secure it, make it so kids couldn't break into the place. I think he saw me as a new caretaker.

And that's why he communicated with me more. I appreciate what you're doing. I love what you're doing. Thank you for helping me kind of mentality. So he started showing himself to me more and some of my investigators that were doing this with me. I think that is a possibility. I also think again, like I said, I think there are people who just don't want to admit they've died. They're watching their loved ones. they're, I can't think of the name of the place now.

Okay.

Tom Carr (01:09:51.898)
There's an old mountain man fort in Wyoming. There's a story of an older couple that retired who loved working there, who volunteered and worked there and lived there. They were there for five or six years. The husband passed away. She said to honor him and honor what we're doing, she stayed on and continued to work there. People said that after he had died,

They started finding the chores that he was doing were being done before they went to go do them. Then he started getting spotted and seen in certain places. This ghost, Fort Bridger, it's Fort Bridger, Wyoming. He started seeing his ghost. The day his wife passed away, he was never seen again. Was he waiting for his loved one?

to pass away so they could cross over together.

And so I guess in your theory, we have some sort of autonomy, right? Which, I don't know, it's hard to reconcile that, you know? I like what you're saying. It's just that I feel like you lose all control after you talk.

And we have no idea what their time is like compared to Christians. You know, there are some people who believe that one day to us is 1000 years to them. We have no idea what time is to.

Keith Malinak (01:11:26.338)
You know? Let me,

Keith Malinak (01:11:31.766)
No, I understand. So I'm trying to find some stuff here for you. Am I allowed to ask what town, what city in Nebraska you're hoping to go to that?

It's Garnett. Where's that? No, it's not in Nebraska. It's Garnett. It's down by Wichita. Okay. I actually, I actually served on my mission out here in Missouri and Garnett was one of the areas that I served at in my mission. And so I wanted to go visit and just kind of visit the old stomping grounds where I served my mission. And I noticed that there was this old house there. It's got an 1856 building. It's called the 1856 house.

Okay.

Tom Carr (01:12:11.462)
and he does ghost tours there. was like, okay. And that's how I kind of sparked my interest. I said, if I could cough up the 400 bucks, I would do it, but that's kind of a big chunk of change for an eight hour ghost tour.

No, I guess. So I, I there's two hotels, two old historic hotels that as you've been talking today, I've thought, thought about, and the first I'll tell you about is in Broken Bow, Nebraska. These are just places that you get the feeling something's going on here. And then you talk to people at the front desk and then they confirm your suspicions. So here we go. It is the,

Aero Historic Hotel and Pub, I'd like to point out. And it's in Broken Bow, Nebraska. so...

The is the reason why you showed up there.

No, no. Actually, It was closed when I was there. No. Me and my son were on a hunting trip up there. so we just stopped. Because whenever I can stop at a Motel 6 or I can pay a few bucks more and go to a place with history, like you said, you know? Yeah. And so we stay at places like this. And this is just, I've never looked this up until right now. And this is incredible. Because I just said, you know, I figured out what hotel it was and I looked it up.

Tom Carr (01:13:22.506)
I'm the exact same way.

Keith Malinak (01:13:33.836)
It says, this hotel has had a number of haunting reports. That's what the front desk said. They said, in fact, I think they pointed toward the pub that was closed, the restaurant bar area, whatever, at the time. Anyway, and it says, this hotel has had a number of haunting reports over the years. A gray-haired apparition has been spotted wandering around the building after closing hours, as well as a ghostly man who likes to sit in the cigar room.

The former owner of the hotel died here and is said to walk up and down the stairs to the kitchen. Other eerie reports here include furniture that moves around on its own, strange booms late at night when no one is around, and a red-haired woman who appears in an upstairs hallway. Stories say it may be the spirit of a woman who was murdered and buried in a cemetery nearby. So just for the record, neither Ezra nor I experienced anything. You just kind of have that feeling of it's not just old, it's old and

Not lonely. Let's put it that way. Okay, so the other hotel I want to draw your attention to stayed at multiple times and every time Every time I know something's happening there and here we go. It's in Cheyenne, Wyoming It's the historic Plains Hotel is rumored to be haunted

I've stayed at the Plains Hotel. Okay. exactly what you're talking about.

So let me read some of these experiences people have had. I know and I can't stop going there. What's my problem? Listen to this. Now hold on. I will say, I will say it's proximity to the Accomplice beer, I was gonna say factory. Well, it's a brewery, but I think it has a different name. Anyway, but it's literally across the street. So that one I'm a little bit.

Tom Carr (01:14:54.464)
creepy as all g-

Tom Carr (01:15:21.486)
know what you're talking about. Yeah, I've stayed there a couple of times. So I used to run, I used to be a truck driver, Salt Lake to Cheyenne and Cheyenne back to Salt Lake. While I was driving a truck, I stayed at that hotel several times when I-80 was closed down because of the snow. So yeah, I know.

Well listen to this, reports of paranormal activity there at the historic planes hotel including sightings of spirits, disembodied voices and unexplained cold spots. Guests and investigators have noted unusual occurrences in various rooms with specific claims centering on areas like room 226. See I don't even remember, I need to figure out what room I was in, you know what saying? I don't know.

where a woman named Rosie reportedly committed suicide. The Plains Hotel is often featured in local ghost tours. Listen to this. We got 226, we got 245, and the fourth floor are believed to be active with paranormal phenomenon. Specific incidents include guests having reporters seeing, hearing various spirits, including cowboys, gamblers, and shady ladies. A spirit known as Rosie, okay.

See ya!

Keith Malinak (01:16:27.15)
I'll explain close. don't know this. Let's see. Old West. Let's see. Situated the bit of the victims of violence. The building's history includes several victims of murder and suicide, which may contribute to its reputation as a haunted location. I mean, it goes on and on and on. But if you're listening to this and you're anywhere near the historic Plains Hotel in Cheyenne, Wyoming, holy crap that if you're on the fence, even if you don't have an experience like a real documental experience, will think.

What the hell's happening here?

I remember one night not getting any sleep because I kept hearing people talking and there was like a party going on and there was I'd walk out of my room and there was nothing it was dead the minute I stepped outside of my room it was dead silent I Walked back into my room crawl back into bed and I could start hearing stuff. Yeah, so I know that place. Yeah, I Tell I have to look it up. There's a hotel in your old stomping grounds in Lincoln right downtown I'm trying to think of that.

I've got the-

Keith Malinak (01:17:26.232)
The Cornhusker Hotel.

Maybe I just remember because I served in Lincoln too on my mission and I remember passing it several times going, that place is haunted and that old cemetery. There's that huge cemetery in Lincoln too. I think it's Lincoln. Is it Lincoln or is it Grand Island? There is this huge cemetery. I just remember seeing this huge cemetery and I was just like, I want to check that place out.

I will say, might be.

I'm just going to say the history in the Midwest states, I mean, they were the frontier of the pioneers for such a long time.

That's what I wanted to talk to you about actually, because just on my most recent trip out West, Ezra and I found ourselves stopping at a lot of historic markers. then one thing that, that what they would be is what they would be is good grammar there. So a lot of people die. A lot of people died on the Oregon trail and you just had to keep going. You bury them, keep going.

Tom Carr (01:18:29.513)
as good as your math.

Keith Malinak (01:18:37.768)
And most of the people that were lost heading west, those are unmarked that have just vanished with time and nobody knows where they're at or anything like that. there are, I think, I forgot what it said, maybe a couple hundred that are known and still preserved to this day as a roadside marker. And there's a little blurb about them.

who died here and where they were moving from and had hoped to get to or something like that. That might be an interesting nationwide ghost tour just to stop at these markers slash burial plots and run your equipment there.

So here's another interesting theory too. Somebody builds a brand spanking new house, move into the house and they start having ghost activity. Did they just build their house on top of an old cemetery or graveyard or an old Indian burial ground?

like pulled

Keith Malinak (01:19:38.382)
Sounds like the plot for a movie.

Yeah, exactly.

Tom Carr (01:19:47.266)
there's so many places and and you know again I encourage people just to go out and have fun with this it's a neat experience look at the history side of stuff and then if you if you want to spend 10-15 bucks on a the one that I use this right here which is my favorite it's a K2 meter you can pick them up on Amazon I think they're 15 bucks and the concept is yeah that will work too so

That's different than mine though.

Yeah, that's different than yours. Yeah. Okay. So this has got a little light on it. Okay. So, and as you can see, closer to the camera. Anyway, so the concept is, is that you can ask Ghost to touch this and to light it once for yes and twice for no. That's So that's the idea behind it. If you want EVPs, just pick yourself up a little digital recorder.

You can get those on Amazon as well, pretty inexpensively. Look for one that's got a condenser mic in it that uses condenser mics. I found that they actually pick up the audio better. I've also used an omnidirectional directional mic before, which it does OK, but I think it has a lot of it picks up a lot of background noise where the condensing mic condenser mic doesn't pick up as much background noise.

You're also going to notice that EVPs are usually on the lower spectrum of the frequency. So sometimes they're really kind of hard to hear. I typically, if I share an EVP or put or play an EVP, it's as I caught it. There is an occasion, I have one that I really, really like that kind of exp...

Tom Carr (01:21:37.742)
kind of explains all three of the things that can happen on a ghost hunt. I get physically touched, I hear the voice, and then I feel a cold chill right after. So all three things that can happen, which is typical what happens on a ghost hunt is that the temperature will drop. I actually have an EVP where we're trying to make the ghost make the room colder. So we went from like 70 some odd degrees

all the way down to 60 with on the thermostat. We had a digital thermometer. So we dropped like 10, 15 degrees within like five minutes. And I said, can you make it colder? Can you make it colder? And I get an EVP that says it's too cold.

Tom Carr (01:22:26.786)
So look for those things, the cold chills.

If he that says it was too cold or a voice recording

It was a voice. It was an EVP that says it's too cold and was.

What does EVP stand for?

Electronic voice phenomenon. So it was a ghost voice telling me I'm making it too cold for them even.

Keith Malinak (01:22:51.31)
So what do think that's about, getting cold?

I think it's an energy. think it's them building up the energy and pulling it out of the air, the molecules, which drops the temperature. So there's not as many atoms bouncing around. So I'm not a scientist. I just play one on TV.

There you go. There you go. All right. I mean, it's fascinating stuff, bro. It's fascinating stuff.

And like I said, I'll post on the 30th, I'll post a bunch of my EVPs on my page. I'll pin them up so you can look at them, some photos. I've got a couple of videos that I can post on there as well that I've shared before. I've got one where a flashlight is rolling back and forth across the table and there's nobody near the table. It's just moving. And then the flashlight blinks on and off. It's pretty cool.

That's very cool. So what you want to do is you want to follow at TcarP, T-C-A-R-R-P on X and then set the notifications so that when Tom posts something, then you're alerted on your app and then you can go and see these videos he's going to post for us here. I guess today, because see today is actually October 30th.

Tom Carr (01:24:02.318)
Yeah. So here's, here's, here's something else too. If you're in the Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas area, you've got a place that's haunted and you just aren't sure about it. And you're interested in me coming out and taking a look at it. I don't charge. I, I would love to do it. Um, you can hang out with me for the night. We can play with all of the toys that I have. We can see if we have a ghost there. Um, and then I can share the information with you. So if you've got an old building or an old house in the Kansas city area or.

I mean, I'm willing to drive up to Grand Island. It's a little bit of a drive, but yeah.

And why at night is it more important than during the day?

So I have done ghost hunts in the middle of the day. The thing about night is one, it's cooler because it's kind of creepy. You're adding that element to it. Two, less false positives. There's less interference from outside noises and people. So there's less cars. There's less electronics going on to interfere with things. So I've done ghost hunts in the middle of the daytime.

This one that I'm doing out in Mark Twain Cemetery, I'm probably gonna do during the day, maybe at dusk to see how things go, just because it's older, it's not very well kept and nothing worse than a 54 year old tripping and falling with his dog.

Keith Malinak (01:25:26.126)
the

I'll probably do that. Yeah, it doesn't really matter what time of day it is. If you ask the right questions, you've got the right energy. You're probably going to get some stuff. Again, the reason why we do it at night is because it's it's cool. Yeah, it's more fun. It adds that add that element of of of spookiness to it, which I think can actually help increase your activity. Right?

more fun!

Keith Malinak (01:25:49.582)
There go.

Tom Carr (01:25:56.078)
When we get a group of people that are really, really scared, their energies are higher. And I think the spirits can feed on that a little bit more.

That's interesting. Okay, man. Wow. All right. Follow him at TcarP and everything you need for this show is at themikeshow.com. If you're watching here on X, we appreciate you checking it out live. It's also air at eight o'clock tonight on YouTube and Rumble and then it posts tomorrow morning on Spotify, iTunes, all the places there, all the links you need at themikeshow.com. So thanks to...

for all he does over there and thank you to Gabby for the Instagram channel at the Mike show. you'd like to support us, we got the buy me a coffee link here at the top of my ex page. There's also subscriptions for two bucks a month. I have no idea what you're gonna get for two bucks a month. That's a work in progress continually, but I appreciate your support. Tom, as always, it has been a blast, man, and I appreciate it. I hope you have a happy Halloween as well.

And just one more reminder. Yeah. Let's keep me on Glenn Beck's podcast. Yeah, I need to do that. Send that at Glenn. You need Tom on your show because I would just love to spend an hour or two talking this with Glenn because I think he would be just extremely fascinated by

Yeah.

Keith Malinak (01:27:15.694)
That's y'all's homework assignment. Tag Glenn on this episode. Tag at Glenn Beck and make sure that he sees all the cool stuff that Tom does here. All right, brother. I hope you have a great rest of your day, and thanks for making this happen.

You too,